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Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Lcct333 » Tue, 03 May 2016 5:37 pm

Hatem wrote:Thanks a lot for the replies.

@Lcct333: May I ask you how much you approximately pay for rent and utilities?
Moreover, may I also ask you where do you come from?
This is because I have been speaking with many different people, and I tend to get very different replies:

1. European/Aussies/Americans with expat package will say my salary is low to keep a certain lifestyle - They have been so lucky that they got disconnected from reality I would say.
2. Indians tells me that on a 100K a year you can save around 50 a year easily - This is IMPOSSIBLE for a western European, at least from my side.

In reality, I think that for the age and for the role, the offer I was given is really decent.
I gave a look at Numbeo and it seems that the lifestyle I am looking for should take approximately 5400SGD/monthly or something like that.
We will see!


I am from Australia. I rent in Katong, and total rent inclusive of utilities would be about $3400.

I think you will find that, these days, there are very few people on 'expat packages', and the numbers are continuing to decline.

I spend (waste?) $100s of dollars each week on alcohol and going out, often take cabs when I can't be bothered to get the bus/train, go overseas every quarter or so, etc so I am by no means thrifty, and I still find the salary more than comfortable... you should be fine!

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 03 May 2016 8:46 pm

Lcct333 wrote:I spend (waste?) $100s of dollars each week on alcohol and going out, often take cabs when I can't be bothered to get the bus/train, go overseas every quarter or so, etc so I am by no means thrifty, and I still find the salary more than comfortable... you should be fine!


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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Brah » Tue, 03 May 2016 10:45 pm

Everything JR8 said in the post subsequent to this is spot on.

I would add:
Hatem wrote:1. European/Aussies/Americans with expat package will say my salary is low to keep a certain lifestyle - They have been so lucky that they got disconnected from reality I would say.


The larger demographic are those Westerners not on a expat package. Like many of us on this forum. I could not imagine, even if I was single, to come here for 100k.

To live and save money here on even more than that is difficult.

You do have a deflating property market in your favor.
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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 04 May 2016 2:30 am

A lot has to do with how well you can jive with the new lifestyle / culture. Not just the $$$ side.

I love high density living. In Shanghai, there is a section where old residences are converted into shops. What strikes me? The aisle way is very narrow, flanked by houses on both sides with numerous huge tall windows (covering over 50 % of the walls). A person walking on that aisle can easily popped his head into those windows and say "hi" :wave: . Since the aisle separating the two rows are so narrow, the neighbors can easily hold a conversation with each other. Across the aisle. I can't help but sense that they like to be in close proximity of each other. And out goes your privacy. Thru those huge tall windows. And I would imagine, those inhabitants would regularly leave them open. To glimpse into the world outside and vice versa.

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Lcct333 » Wed, 04 May 2016 9:05 am

I'm perplexed that people consider that $100k would not be sufficient for a single, 26 year old male (noting the significant upside earning potential once the move has been made).

Here's an approximate breakdown of my spending from my own spreadsheet (over 100k income, but just subtract 1.5k per month):

Income 10140

LESS

Rent 3000
Utilities 400
Phone 50
Internet 40
Gym 140
Groceries 600
Entertainment 1000
Tax Provision 650
Transport 400

Equals Savings ~ 3860 per month (some of which ultimately goes to discretionary items like clothes, holidays, etc)

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 04 May 2016 11:14 am

$100k seems awfully good for SG living. For a single person. Maybe they were paying thru the roof for rent during the real estate boom? And predominantly western grocery?

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 04 May 2016 12:45 pm

And/or did something else stupid like buy a new car in Singapore -- and of course insure it, fuel it, park it, maintain it, and ETC it.

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 May 2016 2:00 pm

Frankly, I could save 60% of that easily. But then again, I'm low maintenance.

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Hatem » Wed, 04 May 2016 9:16 pm

Brah wrote:Everything JR8 said in the post subsequent to this is spot on.

I would add:
Hatem wrote:1. European/Aussies/Americans with expat package will say my salary is low to keep a certain lifestyle - They have been so lucky that they got disconnected from reality I would say.


The larger demographic are those Westerners not on a expat package. Like many of us on this forum. I could not imagine, even if I was single, to come here for 100k.

To live and save money here on even more than that is difficult.

You do have a deflating property market in your favor.

My package is exactly 100,000SGD.
I have some bonus + commission that would put me on 115.000SGD if my team performances will hit some target.

Your comment, if I can say with a lot of respect, I think it is of a person who got pretty much disconnected from the reality.
The European job market is stagnated, and there are only few economies that can provide a very good standard of living for the salary they pay. An example would be Poland, for example.
The issue is that is is extremely hard to go over 2.000 month of income (net).
Singapore would guarantee me a pretty good standard of living with a bigger salary and the possibility to put much more money aside.

For the job I do, and for the type of contract I will have, I could have probably ended up with 10-15% more but that's it.
I speak often with people who tell me that they would not move for less than X, but if my job pays 100.000, it pays 100.

However, I never lived in Singapore, and now I am waiting to see if my ePass will be approved.
My scholastic background is very poor, but my company claim that considering that I am working for the firm already, it should not be too much of a problem.
The day I will move, after few months, I will probably get back with better estimation.

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby JR8 » Wed, 04 May 2016 9:45 pm

Hatem wrote:Your comment, if I can say with a lot of respect, I think it is of a person who got pretty much disconnected from the reality. ...


Hmmm... I think everyone that has replied to you has several years experience in SG, and a couple who are way over that. So I'd take the comments 'in the round' [overall] and sense where they're guiding you.

Hatem wrote:Singapore would guarantee me a pretty good standard of living with a bigger salary and the possibility to put much more money aside. ...


Be careful concluding that before you've given costing out your income vs estimated expenses your absolute best shot. My first transfer was to Tokyo, and when they made me an offer with maaany zeros [of Yen lol] on the end I jumped at it, it appeared a lot of money back then. It was probably double/+ my pay back home. When I got there I witnessed the costs and was stunned - not least because my employer had pretty much screwed me. I ended that posting having lived relatively very modestly yet in debt. Don't repeat my mistake.

Hatem wrote:The day I will move, after few months, I will probably get back with better estimation.


I hope you do. It would be interesting to hear how your current thoughts vs your experiences upon arrival compare.

Good luck tying things up with your Pass etc.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Hatem » Wed, 04 May 2016 9:50 pm

JR8 wrote:
Hatem wrote:Your comment, if I can say with a lot of respect, I think it is of a person who got pretty much disconnected from the reality. ...


Hmmm... I think everyone that has replied to you has several years experience in SG, and a couple who are way over that. So I'd take the comments 'in the round' [overall] and sense where they're guiding you.

Hatem wrote:Singapore would guarantee me a pretty good standard of living with a bigger salary and the possibility to put much more money aside. ...


Be careful concluding that before you've given costing out your income vs estimated expenses your absolute best shot. My first transfer was to Tokyo, and when they made me an offer with maaany zeros [of Yen lol] on the end I jumped at it, it appeared a lot of money back then. It was probably double/+ my pay back home. When I got there I witnessed the costs and was stunned - not least because my employer had pretty much screwed me. I ended that posting having lived relatively very modestly yet in debt. Don't repeat my mistake.

Hatem wrote:The day I will move, after few months, I will probably get back with better estimation.


I hope you do. It would be interesting to hear how your current thoughts vs your experiences upon arrival compare.

Good luck tying things up with your Pass etc.

True.
I actually apologize for the previous post.
I meant it really differently - I just mean it that in the current financial clima, specially in the majority of Europe, it would be pretty silly to do not accept an offer like this due to the lack of alternatives. (London pays more for example, but it is hard to keep a certain living standard).
Despite the general understanding, it is getting harder and harder to move around and get competitive offers when you do not have even the foot in the door.

So as I mentioned many times, I am very happy for all the replies I got and I am really looking forward to get my e-pass (if will be granted...) and start my new adventure.
We will see how the things will move then :)

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby JR8 » Wed, 04 May 2016 10:06 pm

Ah no problem, lost in translation as easily happens by writing on the web. I thought you were 'slinging your hook' before you'd even got to SG ;)

p.s. And yes looking at the stock-markets this pm (EU), the doom does seem to have really set in. I try to remind myself though of the adage 'The day is darkest before the dawn'. This one has been a looong time coming though...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Hatem » Fri, 13 May 2016 10:32 pm

Just an update, forgot to write earlier. The Employment Pass is approved, I do not know how but it took 2 days.
See you in Singapore!

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby JR8 » Fri, 13 May 2016 10:42 pm

Oh well done, congratulations! :-D
[Now the real 'I'm moving' fear sets in eh? ;)]

I forget did you mention previously your potential housing needs/budget? If so you might want to look at the 'Where should I live' FAQ/template, and start triangulating down areas that might work for accommodation. Having at least some idea before arriving, might beat arriving and having zero idea.

p.s. plus the closer you get to your move date the less time you'll have for such immediately discretionary considerations. It seems to go up an exponential curve. If you've time poll now for very broad brush ideas. At least then you'll narrow with some kind of focus areas/districts... which makes flathunting way easier.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Expenses Breakdown and Salary Suggestion - Company transfer but no expat package

Postby Hatem » Fri, 13 May 2016 10:48 pm

I had a look at it and have an idea plus and idea of my budget as well.
But I am probably sticking with the initial plan of doing 3 months in a room - I need to get a better economic stability first, I am currently working somewhere much much cheaper (a lot of benefits, but also very low savings).

Moreover in the next three months I am also thinking with whom is my current partner (I am single but I actually was in a relationship for few years and now built the bridges back) to have her coming over for an internship or if she can find something, a job, and so we can have a bit of budget more in case.
I know it is not so easy, but I think she has a good profile (EU passport but she is Asian, 1 asian language plus 3 european languages, a couple of years of experience at work, a nice bachelor degree and so who knows :) )

However, in the next days I will probably ask for more clarifications about the housing and the room and so on.
But maybe I can already post a question.

If I see a flat that cost 3.000SGD a month, to get in, how much should I pay usually?
(I think 3.000 as deposit usually, plus the first month in advance so 6.000? or is there anything more with the agent? I would just contact people on Nestia/., etc...)


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