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Tenant rights?

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby JR8 » Tue, 26 Apr 2016 9:33 pm

bigblue wrote:thought this forum was put together to help ppl?
instead your fixing my grammar and insulting me now.
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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby JR8 » Tue, 26 Apr 2016 9:37 pm

x9200 wrote:That's why I am very hesitant to help somebody to win something at the expense of another person who I know nothing about. Especially if this somebody shows clear signs of entitlement complexes right from the start. Zero tenant rights, even if the case, is not good enough.


Yeah totally. From my landlording years some tenants will come out with all this sh*t like they're gods children and behaved like it. You get decent tenants, but the moral bankruptcy of others who present themselves as decent/noble is a constant surprise.
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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 26 Apr 2016 9:42 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:
bigblue wrote:have 4 months left. already have given two months notice and served it.

So I'm confused. Did you have a 24 month lease, stayed 20 months, invoked the diplomatic clause, and gave notice 2 months ago? If all that is correct, it seems you have no further obligations provided the diplomatic clause is validly asserted (meaning, you really have to leave Singapore). If you're saying that you are just a few months into a 24 month lease, then the diplomatic clause cuts your obligation in half (to 12 months) but doesn't help any more than that -- although obviously that's a lot better than a 24 month obligation.

I'm assuming "typical" rental agreement language. That's a big assumption.


It may make more sense if OP post the contract, with the names etc redacted, so JR8 or somebody can give their insight.

For for contract, there is no standardised contract. I have read contracts where the landlord has deleted the tenant's rights for early termination, due to termination of employment etc.

And I have seen contracts which are very detailed, and there is a clause that says something like landlord and tenant may amicably amend the terms, as long as both are in agreement.

Contracts from 1 page to 5 page or longer.

And those who sneakily word it so that any appliance breaks in the house, the tenant has to fix it or replace it, as per the wish of the landlord - yes, seen that too.

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:39 pm

From what I understand is that order to legally envoke the Dip Clause in Singapore you do need to give the LL a letter from your employer stating that you have been terminated or are being repatriated from Singapore. Failing which, the LL doesn't have to accept the DC termination.

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby x9200 » Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:07 pm

I doubt there is any specific statute based requirement to show the proof but as with every civil agreement, unless it is defined in the agreement differently or (.... a few other cases), if one party claims something the burden of proof is placed on the claiming party.

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 1:15 am

Not to be confused with an EXIT CLAUSe

DIPLOMATIC CLAUSE
This clause is to safe guard the tenants, If in the event you are no longer employed, transferred to other countries, you can terminate the lease after 12 months by giving 2 months notice. Proof of such transfer or cessation must be shown to the Landlord.
A letter from the company is sometimes not enough and you may need to show a letter from the immigration regarding the cancellation of your pass. Thereafter, the security deposit will be refunded to you. All this depends on your relationship with your landlord. Hence, we as agents always advice to keep cordial relations with your landlord or his representatives.
In Singapore, the diplomatic clause can be included only if the lease is more than a year. If in case this clause has to be included in a one year lease then you have to speak to your agent and get it done with a mutual consent between the landlord and the tenant through the agents and in the absence of agents between the parties in itself.
Usually landlord's are reluctant to include this clause in a one year lease as landlords feel very insecure of tenants using the premises for a short term only.
In a standard Singapore Tenancy Agreement, there is usually the reimbursement clause together with the diplomatic clause. This clause states that if you exercise the diplomatic clause, you will have to reimburse part of the commission the landlord had paid to his agent.
The reason behind this clause is that the landlord had paid the full one month's agent commission for a 2 years lease but if you terminate the lease by exercising the diplomatic clause, hence unable to complete the full 2 years, you will have to refund the pro-rata commission. Since landlord grants the diplomatic clause, they will usually demand reimbursement clause to be included in the tenancy agreement.


http://dreamhomeforu.blogspot.sg/2010/0 ... lause.html

http://www.richardchoke.com/apps/faq/#anchor-1-9

http://www.thefinder.com.sg/singapore-e ... -singapore

http://cyberhomes.com.sg/resources/tenant-s-handbook

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby JR8 » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 1:28 am

Good post ^
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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby x9200 » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 4:50 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Not to be confused with an EXIT CLAUSe

DIPLOMATIC CLAUSE
This clause is to safe guard the tenants, If in the event you are no longer employed, transferred to other countries, you can terminate the lease after 12 months by giving 2 months notice. Proof of such transfer or cessation must be shown to the Landlord.
A letter from the company is sometimes not enough and you may need to show a letter from the immigration regarding the cancellation of your pass. Thereafter, the security deposit will be refunded to you. All this depends on your relationship with your landlord. Hence, we as agents always advice to keep cordial relations with your landlord or his representatives.
In Singapore, the diplomatic clause can be included only if the lease is more than a year. If in case this clause has to be included in a one year lease then you have to speak to your agent and get it done with a mutual consent between the landlord and the tenant through the agents and in the absence of agents between the parties in itself.

This doesn't contradict anyway what I wrote above. This is not a statutory legal obligation. It is what the parties agree to - see the 1st underlined part.
More-over, what you quoted above is just an example of some rules as the local agents put in place and call it "a standard clause", very often to make the tenant just to shut up and not give the agent any headache negotiating individual clauses. There is no legal obligation to follow these rules. For examples, see the 2nd underlined part - it's a pure agent's crap. You have a strong statement in the first sentence:

In Singapore, the diplomatic clause can be included only if the lease is more than a year.

and this statement is entirely contradicted in the sentences that follow.

[..] get it done with a mutual consent between the landlord and the tenant through the agents and in the absence of agents between the parties in itself.

So again, it is up to the parties. You may have it after 3 months if you, and the LL wishes so. You may have it so the LL takes your words and no proof from the employer is needed.

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 5:56 am

x9200 wrote:[..] get it done with a mutual consent between the landlord and the tenant through the agents and in the absence of agents between the parties in itself.

So again, it is up to the parties. You may have it after 3 months if you, and the LL wishes so. You may have it so the LL takes your words and no proof from the employer is needed.


I safely assume that it's all about mutual consent, or lack of it ;)

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby x9200 » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 6:05 am

Lack of the consent would make the agreement (parts of it) invalid unless there is a statutory obligation in place.

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby JR8 » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 3:55 pm

x9200 wrote: More-over, what you quoted above is just an example of some rules as the local agents put in place and call it "a standard clause", very often to make the tenant just to shut up and not give the agent any headache negotiating individual clauses.


The LLs agent on our last place tried to pull that one on everything I tried to negotiate: 'This is a standard clause, completely standard'. Like that was going to close down the discussion.

A diplomatic clause was one thing we specifically had added into the TA.
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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 9:21 pm

X9200, if it's in the contract it's statutory under Contract Law.

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby x9200 » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:50 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:X9200, if it's in the contract it's statutory under Contract Law.

If the above was true, in the Contract Law it had to be an explicit reference to it, which I doubt there is any. It is actually deregulation under lex generalis: Everything which is not forbidden is allowed - sounds familiar? Hard to call it statutory regulation in any practical sense.

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Re: Tenant rights?

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:07 pm

can the OP post cut and paste portions of the contract here so we can perhaps dissect and provide a solution ( not specifically to him but to others who may be in the same boat)
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