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PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
leolm31
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by leolm31 » Mon, 06 Jan 2020 2:55 pm

If I understand correctly that’s only for those 50+ looking to retire in West Malaysia?

They have another option to withdraw under - You can withdraw your CPF in full if you are about to leave or have left Singapore and West Malaysia permanently with no intention of returning to either country for employment or residence.

What I heard before is that if I want to come back as PR I would then need to deposit the full CPF money withdrawn plus interest. If you know that this has happened before do share!

Thanks

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singaporeflyer
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 06 Jan 2020 4:05 pm

leolm31 wrote:
Mon, 06 Jan 2020 2:55 pm
If I understand correctly that’s only for those 50+ looking to retire in West Malaysia?

They have another option to withdraw under - You can withdraw your CPF in full if you are about to leave or have left Singapore and West Malaysia permanently with no intention of returning to either country for employment or residence.

What I heard before is that if I want to come back as PR I would then need to deposit the full CPF money withdrawn plus interest. If you know that this has happened before do share!

Thanks
Right

Himanshu_p
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by Himanshu_p » Mon, 27 Jan 2020 11:25 pm

Hello All,

I am Indian citizen, lost my PR in 2015. I have not withdrawan my CPF yet.
While browsing thru the CPF website and reviewed the withdrawal form. It said i need to declare i dont have any intention to come back to work or residence in Singapore and West Malaysia.

So does it imply if I am working in Kuala Lumpur I cannot withdraw my CPF, but same doesnt hold true if I am working in Jakarta.

Thanks for advice in advance

kedeepu
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by kedeepu » Sun, 28 Jun 2020 3:41 pm

Hello everyone,
I am planning to renounce my PR by end Sep - early Oct time. Myself and my wife are PRs, however she is currently back to our home town and not planning to come back for the cancellation of PR (due to non-PR kids and Covid situation). So I am looking for more info like if it will be possible for me to cancel the PR on her behalf ?
What's required for that ?
Anyone with such experience ?

Thank you in advance for sharing !

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singaporeflyer
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by singaporeflyer » Sun, 28 Jun 2020 6:26 pm

kedeepu wrote:
Sun, 28 Jun 2020 3:41 pm
Hello everyone,
I am planning to renounce my PR by end Sep - early Oct time. Myself and my wife are PRs, however she is currently back to our home town and not planning to come back for the cancellation of PR (due to non-PR kids and Covid situation). So I am looking for more info like if it will be possible for me to cancel the PR on her behalf ?
What's required for that ?
Anyone with such experience ?

Thank you in advance for sharing !
https://va.ecitizen.gov.sg/cfp/customer ... refaq.aspx

Home > Permanent Residence Services > Renunciation of PR

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PickN'Learn'
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by PickN'Learn' » Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:40 pm

Hi Himanshu

Thanks for your post.
Can you please share what infomration did u manage to get if any

Thanks in advance

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PickN'Learn'
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by PickN'Learn' » Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:43 pm

Himanshu_p wrote:
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 11:25 pm
Hello All,

I am Indian citizen, lost my PR in 2015. I have not withdrawan my CPF yet.
While browsing thru the CPF website and reviewed the withdrawal form. It said i need to declare i dont have any intention to come back to work or residence in Singapore and West Malaysia.

So does it imply if I am working in Kuala Lumpur I cannot withdraw my CPF, but same doesnt hold true if I am working in Jakarta.

Thanks for advice in advance
Hi Bro

Did you manage to get any updates

Please advice

Thanks

PR 777
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by PR 777 » Wed, 28 Oct 2020 8:16 pm

Hi All
I intend to renounce my PR and withdraw my CPF money. Need to do that in a given time frame due to tax man in Australia. I have few questions and im thankful for any answers in advance.
1. Im in Singapore but wife is in Australia. I have to renounce both of our PR's. Can i get her letter of authorization to renounce her PR as we have to apply for it together? I have all her documents with me.
2. When i go to ICA to renounce our PR how long does it take to get a reply from ICA.
3. After renouncing PR and receiving their reply how long can i remain in Singapore before going back to Australia. This COVID 19 has made it difficult to get back due border closures in Australia.
Thank you all once again

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by PR 777 » Wed, 28 Oct 2020 8:45 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 05 Dec 2018 8:08 pm
People who are giving up SG PR, do you guys realize how difficult it is to get one? I find it ironic, you guys have been given PR and you dont even value it, while so many people here would do anything to get one. BTW, PR by investment scheme costs 2M in Singapore, in comparison US EB1 is only 500K USD.
Hi Wd40. There is always a reason why people give up their PR. Retiring and moving back to the country of origin as well as the need for their CPF money for their retirement. Also there is a time frame for bringing CPF money to their country of origin. If they pass the timeline they get taxed on that money. So as you can see people do it for obvious reason. No one does it just for the fun of it. We do value Singapore PR and i for one would love to keep it but i can not without sacrificing my CPF. Hope you understand

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singaporeflyer
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by singaporeflyer » Wed, 28 Oct 2020 9:51 pm

PR 777 wrote:
Wed, 28 Oct 2020 8:16 pm
Hi All
I intend to renounce my PR and withdraw my CPF money. Need to do that in a given time frame due to tax man in Australia. I have few questions and im thankful for any answers in advance.
1. Im in Singapore but wife is in Australia. I have to renounce both of our PR's. Can i get her letter of authorization to renounce her PR as we have to apply for it together? I have all her documents with me.
2. When i go to ICA to renounce our PR how long does it take to get a reply from ICA.
3. After renouncing PR and receiving their reply how long can i remain in Singapore before going back to Australia. This COVID 19 has made it difficult to get back due border closures in Australia.
Thank you all once again
1. If you are the main PR, once you cancel the main PR, the dependent/sponsored PR will also be automatically cancelled
2. usually 1-3 days max
3. 15-30 days on STVP

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PNGMK
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 29 Oct 2020 9:43 am

PR 777 wrote:
Wed, 28 Oct 2020 8:45 pm
Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 05 Dec 2018 8:08 pm
People who are giving up SG PR, do you guys realize how difficult it is to get one? I find it ironic, you guys have been given PR and you dont even value it, while so many people here would do anything to get one. BTW, PR by investment scheme costs 2M in Singapore, in comparison US EB1 is only 500K USD.
Hi Wd40. There is always a reason why people give up their PR. Retiring and moving back to the country of origin as well as the need for their CPF money for their retirement. Also there is a time frame for bringing CPF money to their country of origin. If they pass the timeline they get taxed on that money. So as you can see people do it for obvious reason. No one does it just for the fun of it. We do value Singapore PR and i for one would love to keep it but i can not without sacrificing my CPF. Hope you understand
WD40 just salty as he has failed to get PR despite several (or many) applications. He does make a valid point but everyone's circumstances are different.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by TropicalExpat » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:28 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Mon, 08 Jul 2019 4:18 pm
Long time Kiwi mate of mine kept his CPF account for over 20 years before returning to Singapore and actually getting PR. Gave up his PR a couple of years ago over the inability to get permission to have two maids (wife gave birth to triplets) so he gave up his PR and moved to Surabaya (where his wife's from). Far as I know his CPF is still sitting there and has more than doubled since he worked here back in the late 80's early 90's when EP holders still had to contribute to CPF.
PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 08 Jul 2019 5:38 pm
Yes F Vespa kept his for over 15 years after cancelling PR when he sold TechnoTransfer in order to keep it away from creditors and gold diggers - as he almost went broke in the GFC due to property tenants being unable to pay rent and property tax foreclosures looming it was his CPF that he knew he could fall back on. It must be one of the very few investments worldwide (apart from secret and illegal accounts) that has this level of protection. You'd need an impossible court order from the Singapore High Court pretty much to get a CPF payout without the account owners agreement. On the other hand I know idiots (divers) who cashed their in (also EP holders incidentally) and bought a range rover with it. Guess where the Range Rover is now? Junkyard. I fear OP will do a similar thing.
I realise this is responding to old post, but thanks for the information here.

You both make very good points. So if a PR leaves, but doesn't get the REP renewed, they can keep their money in CPF earning interest.
At the same time, it is well protected against pretty much all legal action.

Thanks again!

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 1:16 pm

Perxactly! And it's Moody's AAA rated to boot.

But.....

If you happen to be a US citizen, please remember to include the interest earned (all of it) annually on your US Tax return as well as the employers contribution to CPF as well. The employers contribution should be included as wages and the interest on Schedule B. Also you are required to file FBAR. I could go into much greater detail but this thread is not the place for it. A search of the archives will turn up recent information on CPF tax liability for US citizens who are taxed on there world-wide income.

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 1:07 pm

TropicalExpat wrote:
Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:28 am
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Mon, 08 Jul 2019 4:18 pm
Long time Kiwi mate of mine kept his CPF account for over 20 years before returning to Singapore and actually getting PR. Gave up his PR a couple of years ago over the inability to get permission to have two maids (wife gave birth to triplets) so he gave up his PR and moved to Surabaya (where his wife's from). Far as I know his CPF is still sitting there and has more than doubled since he worked here back in the late 80's early 90's when EP holders still had to contribute to CPF.
PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 08 Jul 2019 5:38 pm
Yes F Vespa kept his for over 15 years after cancelling PR when he sold TechnoTransfer in order to keep it away from creditors and gold diggers - as he almost went broke in the GFC due to property tenants being unable to pay rent and property tax foreclosures looming it was his CPF that he knew he could fall back on. It must be one of the very few investments worldwide (apart from secret and illegal accounts) that has this level of protection. You'd need an impossible court order from the Singapore High Court pretty much to get a CPF payout without the account owners agreement. On the other hand I know idiots (divers) who cashed their in (also EP holders incidentally) and bought a range rover with it. Guess where the Range Rover is now? Junkyard. I fear OP will do a similar thing.
I realise this is responding to old post, but thanks for the information here.

You both make very good points. So if a PR leaves, but doesn't get the REP renewed, they can keep their money in CPF earning interest.
At the same time, it is well protected against pretty much all legal action.

Thanks again!
Yes. It's a fairly unique style of holding that is finally starting to attract some attention due to it's high level of security. I should add that there are some funky rules about withdrawing amounts and when interest is paid (interest is converted to principal on Jan 1 so if you want to with draw only interest do so then) but CPF effectively acts as a protected HISA once you are over 55 and have above the basic retirement sum (which most expats would have).

My personal goal is the 1M65 - $1 million in CPF at 65 which I believe I can make (9 years left).

Edit: I should add that another diver Phil W (why is it always ex divers?) tells me that his ex wife has manage to get an injunction stopping him withdrawing his CPF so divorce does play but saying that she had to get the injunction in a Singapore court (and she is Singaporean and so is the divorce order).

Another ex diver (again) Mark W managed to keep his CPF ring fenced against a winding up order on his company. The CPF was ruled to be a protected and the court order )which killed his company and managed to snag some of his personal assets as they pierced the corporate veil due to a poorly written agreement where he offered director's indemnities) could not get at his CPF.

My Singaporean friends basically say that the Singapore dollar has three components: SGD, BND (Brunei Petrodollar) and the CPF dollar (which means that when a SGD hits your CPF account it becomes sort of a parallel currency that follows different rules).

Personally I encourage everyone to maximize their CPF contributions (currently around $36,000 pa whether by employer or by your own tops ups). I know retirees who pay in $36,000 (or whatever the current contribution limit is) every Jan 1 to take best advantage of the interest rates. They usually top up their medisave account first (as that is tax deductible) to the prevailing limit ($60k) and then their other accounts.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

TropicalExpat
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Post by TropicalExpat » Fri, 11 Dec 2020 3:30 pm

So if I read this thread right, if one were to leave Singapore and not get the REP renewed, they could still contribute to CPF?

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