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PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

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neconomist
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PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby neconomist » Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:30 pm

Hi All,

I am planning to leave Singapore by the end of the year, however I am not sure whether I might come back in the short-term (just in case the new job being in some remote emerging market would not work out well).

My PR is expiring next year in July and I would like if possible to request a renewal. At the same time I am not sure whether it is the best choice to leave the CPF contributions where they are (as I heard some people do so) or it's better to withdraw them all at the moment I am leaving, and therefore to cancel my PR.

So my question for the community are:
1) Can I leave the country for a new job experience without cancellation of PR? Should I just make sure I clear my taxes with IRAS?
2) If my PR is expiring next year in July and I move out of the country by Dec-16, will I be able to renew the PR, maybe with a proof of coming to Singapore once in a while? I heard from a friend that they usually ask if you have any Singapore owned property or husband/wife.
3) If I need to cancel the PR the moment I leave the country, is it true I can leave the CPF where it is and can withdraw the balance in a future stage? Will the funds still mature interest?
4) In case I withdraw the CPF balance, how much taxes should I pay and if ever I would like to come back to Singapore, should I return back all the amount plus interest earned until my original withdrawal?

I know I should ask these questions directly to the CPF/IRAS bodies but I wonder if anyone here already faced these issues and is willing to share their thoughts. In fact,

Thanks a lot for your help,
mario

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby bro75 » Mon, 25 Apr 2016 1:08 pm

1. Yes
2. You can renew your REP online 3 months before the expiry date. I am not sure if there is any other way to renew your REP.
3. Yes, you can leave your cpf as is and it will continue to generate interest.
4. If you have withdrawn your cpf before and want to come back as a PR, you will need to re-apply for PR. I heard (not first hand though) that you will need to restore your previous cpf balance before PR can be approved. But if you just want to work on an EP, then restoring your cpf balance is not required.

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 25 Apr 2016 1:30 pm

One recent "complication" -- starting on November 1, 2015 -- is that citizens and PRs, no matter where they live in the world, must continue paying MediShield Life premiums (taxes) unless they qualify for a waiver. In short, it's not free to maintain PR status. If you think there is a reasonable likelihood that your PR status will be valuable to you, then you should try to retain your status. If not, then given the "running cost" you should probably terminate your PR status.

The decision to withdraw CPF funds is a separate decision. In my view most ex-PRs should not withdraw their CPF funds unless and until they need them (in retirement preferably). CPF SA is paying over 4% nominal interest Singapore tax free, and the real interest rate is even higher since Singapore currently has negative inflation (deflation). CPF's interest rate is inflation adjusted, so if inflation ever returns to Singapore the interest rate will go up. That's all really quite extraordinary for a AAA-rated government, especially for an account that an ex-PR can withdraw at any time (i.e. the funds are "on demand" callable). I'd let that deal ride "into the sunset."

One exception to this general advice is if you're moving to a country with a tax code that would heavily penalize CPF holdings. For example, if that country's tax code requires paying a high tax on the total value of the account, e.g. upon withdrawal. That's quite rare but possible. In that rare circumstance you have to be very careful how you handle your withdrawal, especially with respect to timing. Taking a wild guess ("Mario"?), Italy is probably not one of those countries, although in Italy you would have to declare the account on Form RW, pay income tax on the interest each year, and (probably) pay wealth tax (IVAFE) each year on the total value of the account. Nonetheless, CPF would still be a good deal for a resident of Italy.

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby neconomist » Mon, 25 Apr 2016 3:14 pm

Thank you for the advises.

In fact I just checked and the medishield life premium is $310. In my case with the current balance and the average interest earned on these accounts I believe it is not such a big issue. This insurance would also give me some kind of guarantee if ever I would need some hospitalization or treatments and I would be willing to have them in Singapore.

In regards to the withdrawal I also agree, some of my friends told me that they would rather leave the funds here as a retirement/emergency fund.
Yes, if I'd come back to Italy I'd rather need to verify with the local Tax Authority what would be the treatment of the CPF funds, being that I did not pay any tax on those contributions yet again they have been mandatory deposits which are imposed by a local sovereign system. In accordance with the current rule all financial assets which are owned abroad by Italian resident are subjected to the IVAFE rate of 0.2%.
I have an additional doubt, if I make a withdrawal, what would be the tax rate in Singapore for the full amount of CPF balance?

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 25 Apr 2016 4:48 pm

CPF is Singapore tax free on all fronts: contributions, interest, and withdrawals.

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby singaporeflyer » Mon, 25 Apr 2016 7:23 pm

neconomist wrote:
2) If my PR is expiring next year in July and I move out of the country by Dec-16, will I be able to renew the PR, maybe with a proof of coming to Singapore once in a while? I heard from a friend that they usually ask if you have any Singapore owned property or husband/wife.


Practically, you need to be employed in Singapore and residing permanently in Singapore when your REP is being renewed. If you are overseas and not getting paid in Singapore, then the chances of REP renewal will reduce.

SF

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby Bismack » Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:06 pm

Hi,

I'm planning to renounce my PR very soon followed by CPF withdrawal. Just hoping there are more recent experiences to above 2 steps.

I'm a M'sian planning to retire back in West M'sia upon surrendering my PR and CPF withdrawal. Would be helpful if somebody can share their more recent experience pertaining to if it's possible to obtain letter from ICA in person on the spot or one has to go back and wait. The said letter is required to show one has renounced his PR and can therefore proceed to CPF for withdrawal application.

Then there's this question on how long does one have to wait for CPF board to credit withdrawal into a Spore bank account. Last entry I found back Sep 2017 says approx 6-8 weeks while those older like 2013 said it took them only 9-14 working days.

Any updated info on above would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby singaporeflyer » Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:57 am

Bismack wrote:Hi,

I'm planning to renounce my PR very soon followed by CPF withdrawal. Just hoping there are more recent experiences to above 2 steps.

I'm a M'sian planning to retire back in West M'sia upon surrendering my PR and CPF withdrawal. Would be helpful if somebody can share their more recent experience pertaining to if it's possible to obtain letter from ICA in person on the spot or one has to go back and wait. The said letter is required to show one has renounced his PR and can therefore proceed to CPF for withdrawal application.

Then there's this question on how long does one have to wait for CPF board to credit withdrawal into a Spore bank account. Last entry I found back Sep 2017 says approx 6-8 weeks while those older like 2013 said it took them only 9-14 working days.

Any updated info on above would be greatly appreciated.


If you are going to retire in west malaysia, you might not be able to withdraw your CPF. Please see below

​You can withdraw your CPF in full if you are about to leave or have left Singapore and West Malaysia permanently with no intention of returning to either country for employment or residence.


https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/ ... er-grounds

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby Bismack » Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:52 am

Many thks for your reply. But I've already fulfilled their listed criteria of 55 years old or above 50 less than 55 with last 2 years never work in Spore to qualify.

As such I'm now only hoping someone from the forum able to shed some more recent experiences or knowledge of the;

1) is one able to obtain letter stating PR has been renounced on the spot or within 1-2 days when visiting ICA?

2) what is one's more recent experience in the wait time from submitting application in person CPF application to withdraw to time taken for funds to be credited into a Spore bank acc.

Any info to above would be helpful.


Cheers,

RicoCee
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby RicoCee » Tue, 23 Oct 2018 11:13 pm

Hi,

I just renounced my Singapore PR last October 1, 2018.

1. I went to ICA in the morning and was given a letter that I renounced my SIngapore PR. I was also given a visa to stay in Singapore for 30 days more.

2. I proceeded to CPF office in the afternoon to process my CPF withdrawal the process was fairly easy just needed to sign some documents and specify my bank account details and overseas address.
(note: make sure to go to your desired bank to update your details to match your name in passport and to specify your passport number because this is what CPF will use)

As of Today, I have not yet received any updates from CPF on the status of my CPF withdrawal. It has been more than 3 weeks already.

Good luck to all of us who are leaving Singapore to pursue a new life in a different Country! will let you know if there are any updates!

Cheers!

Bismack
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby Bismack » Wed, 24 Oct 2018 6:07 am

RicoCee wrote:Hi,

I just renounced my Singapore PR last October 1, 2018.

1. I went to ICA in the morning and was given a letter that I renounced my SIngapore PR. I was also given a visa to stay in Singapore for 30 days more.

2. I proceeded to CPF office in the afternoon to process my CPF withdrawal the process was fairly easy just needed to sign some documents and specify my bank account details and overseas address.
(note: make sure to go to your desired bank to update your details to match your name in passport and to specify your passport number because this is what CPF will use)

As of Today, I have not yet received any updates from CPF on the status of my CPF withdrawal. It has been more than 3 weeks already.

Good luck to all of us who are leaving Singapore to pursue a new life in a different Country! will let you know if there are any updates!

Cheers!


Hi,

Many thks for sharing and I hope you'll receive your CPF soon.


Cheers,

betterlife1984
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby betterlife1984 » Sun, 25 Nov 2018 12:39 pm

I am going to renounce my PR and withdraw my CPF soon. I have a few questions:

1) Do I need to book an appointment with ICA to renounce my PR? ( I am overseas now)

2) Am I able to withdraw my CPF to my current DBS bank account in Singapore and leave the money there for a while or I have to specify an overseas bank account for CPF to send the money over?
If the transfer to DBS bank acocunt is okay, do I need to inform the bank about the CPF transfer, and tell them I am no longer the PR or things like that? Will the bank still allow me to main the bank account even if I am not PR anymore?

Thanks for your answers!

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 25 Nov 2018 1:32 pm

betterlife1984 wrote:I am going to renounce my PR and withdraw my CPF soon. I have a few questions:

1) Do I need to book an appointment with ICA to renounce my PR? ( I am overseas now)


No. Fill out the application. Have it and supporting documents notarized and sent in to CPF. No appointment needed.

2) Am I able to withdraw my CPF to my current DBS bank account in Singapore and leave the money there for a while or I have to specify an overseas bank account for CPF to send the money over?
If the transfer to DBS bank acocunt is okay, do I need to inform the bank about the CPF transfer, and tell them I am no longer the PR or things like that? Will the bank still allow me to main the bank account even if I am not PR anymore?

Thanks for your answers!


Yes. Putting it into a local Singapore bank account is by far the easiest and requires the least paperwork (only the declaration on the CPF withdrawal application, as I recall). Overseas requires more docs. Then, just initiate EFT to whatever bank you want.

You don't need to inform the bank... it's just one more direct deposit into your account.

I don't know about DBS but I gave up PR in 2016 and StanChart still allows me to keep my zero balance checking account. I get an electronic statement every month.

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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby Bismack » Sun, 25 Nov 2018 1:54 pm

betterlife1984 wrote:I am going to renounce my PR and withdraw my CPF soon. I have a few questions:

1) Do I need to book an appointment with ICA to renounce my PR? ( I am overseas now)

2) Am I able to withdraw my CPF to my current DBS bank account in Singapore and leave the money there for a while or I have to specify an overseas bank account for CPF to send the money over?
If the transfer to DBS bank acocunt is okay, do I need to inform the bank about the CPF transfer, and tell them I am no longer the PR or things like that? Will the bank still allow me to main the bank account even if I am not PR anymore?

Thanks for your answers!


Hi,

1) Appointment is not required if you plan to visit to renounce yr PR but I believe it does help shorten the wait time. I made an advance appointment online and was done in 15 min.(Appointment was done under PR renewal as there's no option for appointment to renounce PR) Letter confirming no longer a PR and granted 30 days stay.

2) You can give them a local bank acc for crediting of yr CPF withdrawal. It doesn't have to be an overseas bank account. Banks basically doesn't care if your acc was opened with yr PR ID though they do advise you in updating them later when you have given up yr PR. CPF board will Giro into the account no. you've given them. So just make acc no. is correct as they'll make you sign an indemnity form to say they won't be liable shld acc details submitted to them wrongly.

And I was amazed my visit to CPF Service Ctr took only 15-20 min of wait time plus filling up all forms at counter and out. Now only waiting for them to credit into my local bank acc.

I wish you all the best and hope above helps you in some way.


Cheers,

betterlife1984
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Re: PR surrender and CPF withdrawal

Postby betterlife1984 » Sun, 25 Nov 2018 3:16 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
betterlife1984 wrote:I am going to renounce my PR and withdraw my CPF soon. I have a few questions:

1) Do I need to book an appointment with ICA to renounce my PR? ( I am overseas now)


No. Fill out the application. Have it and supporting documents notarized and sent in to CPF. No appointment needed.

2) Am I able to withdraw my CPF to my current DBS bank account in Singapore and leave the money there for a while or I have to specify an overseas bank account for CPF to send the money over?
If the transfer to DBS bank acocunt is okay, do I need to inform the bank about the CPF transfer, and tell them I am no longer the PR or things like that? Will the bank still allow me to main the bank account even if I am not PR anymore?

Thanks for your answers!


Yes. Putting it into a local Singapore bank account is by far the easiest and requires the least paperwork (only the declaration on the CPF withdrawal application, as I recall). Overseas requires more docs. Then, just initiate EFT to whatever bank you want.

You don't need to inform the bank... it's just one more direct deposit into your account.

I don't know about DBS but I gave up PR in 2016 and StanChart still allows me to keep my zero balance checking account. I get an electronic statement every month.

Thanks so much for your answers. They help clarify quite a few things for me!


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