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Please help serious family problem Indian woman

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 8:54 am

BBCWatcher wrote:"Because our friends are having kids and think we're odd" is a supremely bad reason to decide to have a child, which is at least what you implied. Please don't do that, at least for the child's sake.


With 100% zero malice, you need to have some sensitivity to Indian culture, when you come out with suggestions. Especially when the lady here seems to be educated and smart enough to have known what she was getting into.

In The Sub-continent, being single is taboo, beyond an age. Heck, it's bad.

And the parents will the ridicule of the town and will be taunted if their offsprings aren't married at a certain age. And suggestions will range from mild to extremely terrible.

Once the marriage happens, if baby doesn't come within a year or so, again, the parents will be taunted, ridiculed, and even may see invites for weddings etc being dropped- as the children who don't produce babies = unlucky parents = don't invite them for weddings where they will become back luck.

And there is a lot of social pressure to 'get things done'.

Again, I am of the belief you meant no malice, but, suggestions to go for artificial insemination, adoption etc are against a lot of sub-con peoples' belief that a) marriage will get things settled, and once married if things don't go the right way, b) having a baby will get things resolved.

And Marriage + Baby is the universal solution in the Sub-Continent for even schizophrenics, gays, seizures, intellectually challenged and all .. And yes, that's how things go.

bhurirav wrote:@All
I will try to reply to all others tomorrow
please do not judge me, none of you are exactly in my shoes.


I doubt anybody here is judging you, but it's a bit perplexing for you to come here, spill sordid details, and then insist you are not to be judged, and then I wonder what you would like to hear.

That you are confident that you are doing the right thing in sucking the soul and money out of the man who trusted you, well, I don't know what to say.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 9:39 am

ecureilx wrote:
BBCWatcher wrote:"Because our friends are having kids and think we're odd" is a supremely bad reason to decide to have a child, which is at least what you implied. Please don't do that, at least for the child's sake.


With 100% zero malice, you need to have some sensitivity to Indian culture, when you come out with suggestions. Especially when the lady here seems to be educated and smart enough to have known what she was getting into.


Ya... well... BBCW is not exactly renowned for anything beyond academic experience.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 10:19 am

I don't think divorce carries the same stigma as it did some years ago.. No one really cares anymore, 50% of my classmates are divorced and have all remarried quite successfully, so please don't hype and dramatize it.
Plus you seem to be well educated to.. And since by divorcing you don't necessarily lose your pr status do you? You can always find some man here in Singapore who'd be more open minded than someone back home.
Regarding your financial status, id adivse you to find a job in Singapore, rent a room/co share an apartment with some others move out and live separately, learn to be financially independent maybe?
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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 10:25 am

What I don't understand are these so called modern,well educated Indian women who appear modern outward, clothing fashion etc, but want their husbands to pay for everything,support them financially and then sit at home and do nothing, when a break up crisis like this occurs,they can't seem to think beyond blackmailing husbands instead of formulating an escape route that involves getting a job, financial independence etc.
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Re: RE: Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby RoastBeefBaron » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 10:35 am

rajagainstthemachine wrote:What I don't understand are these so called modern,well educated Indian women who appear modern outward, clothing fashion etc, but want their husbands to pay for everything,support them financially and then sit at home and do nothing, when a break up crisis like this occurs,they can't seem to think beyond blackmailing husbands instead of formulating an escape route that involves getting a job, financial independence etc.

I guess in other societies, such as the West, divorce has been commonplace for 30-odd years, so there's a precedent that newly-divorced women (and men) can follow. It'd be tough to get divorced and not have any 'role models' around. That said, I do get your point about independent, modern women being independent and modern in name only.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 10:53 am

rajagainstthemachine wrote:What I don't understand are these so called modern,well educated Indian women who appear modern outward, clothing fashion etc, but want their husbands to pay for everything,support them financially and then sit at home and do nothing, when a break up crisis like this occurs,they can't seem to think beyond blackmailing husbands instead of formulating an escape route that involves getting a job, financial independence etc.


:D And I wonder if the OP's parents paid dowry to marry the guy ;)

if she didn't, well, at least her husband was more civilised on that score.

Somehow asking for and getting divorce doesn't have the same stigma as before, agreed, but in the time during the completion of the paperwork, the girls do tend to earn the ire of the old and gold. After all, it is always 99.9% the fault of the woman, never the man. That's what a patriarchal society does to women. Modern enough to launch Satellites, but frowns on women who prove the men are wrong.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 1:02 pm

bhurirav wrote:
BBCWatcher wrote:
PNGMK wrote:I'm assuming your husband is incapable of penetration or ejaculation and hence you could argue he has never consummated the marriage as evidenced by the lack of children.

That's quite an assumption! Does "bisexual" have a different meaning in India? The ordinary meaning is sexual attraction to members of both sexes. Truly bisexual individuals rarely have issues consummating marriages to spouses of either sex.

However, to expand on your original point, annulments in Singapore come in two basic types. A void marriage doesn't appear to be an option. (An underage or incestuous marriage would be examples.) However, Section 106 of the Singapore Women's Charter describes the grounds for a voidable marriage. "Non-consummation due to inability" and "non-consummation due to refusal" are valid grounds. The former can be initiated by either party, while the latter must be initiated by the willing spouse (the spouse who did not refuse). But it's a gigantic leap to assume "bisexual" means "non-consummation."

Annulments are different than divorces under the law in Singapore. Whether they are different in the eyes of friends and family members -- or so-called friends and family members -- is up to those individuals.

I agree with Rajagainstthemachine's sentiments only in the sense that, if you're going to be happy in life, you probably have to disengage from miserable (and miserable behaving) people. In other words, the original poster might be in dire need of more than one divorce, so to speak.



I used the term "bisexual" in the normal international sense, not in any "Indian" sense and the term doesn't carry any other connotations in India.

The marriage was consummated a long time back, in fact we used to "live together" occasionally (and using the term live together in the normal sense too, with all that it implies) throughout his Uni years and beyond, I shall elaborate on this in my later posts in answer to others questions.

In India too, "annulments" differ from divorce, in the sense that annul means that the marriage technically never existed.

In Indian eyes, in general, barring very rare circumstances, once married you technically lose the never married tag.

As I've said before, I know I would be miserable if I stay, I am not sure how happy I can be if I leave... and I know people will be judgmental but I am a normal, flawed human, warts, compulsions and all :?



This couple lives in and has stable immigration status in Singapore. If you want to be bound by some other country's practices and norms, you can. That's your choice, whether you're from Delhi or Nairobi or Topeka. You can bring as many pieces of baggage as you want, although you might pay excess baggage charges. However, neither the original poster nor her spouse has to be bound, especially if they never return to that country.

Every immigrant confronts this fundamental reality in some fashion. Welcome to Singapore. ;)

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 1:06 pm

ecureilx wrote:
BBCWatcher wrote:"Because our friends are having kids and think we're odd" is a supremely bad reason to decide to have a child, which is at least what you implied. Please don't do that, at least for the child's sake.


With 100% zero malice, you need to have some sensitivity to Indian culture, when you come out with suggestions.

Not when it comes to children. Yes, stipulated, there are parents who have children for very bad reasons, in India and around the world. Those reasons are still bad, and I'll say so without apology. Children and their welfare come first in my way of thinking. If that offends anybody, then deal with your own hangups yourself. Children are not at all like BMWs parked in your neighbors' driveways, and you get one (or a couple) because you too want a BMW (or whatever). This is not a contest.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby bhurirav » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 3:50 pm

PNGMK wrote:Bhur;

A few random points:

1. In Singapore a failure on the part of one party in a marriage to disclose information related to their ability to consummate or provide children can be grounds for annulment. This is not a divorce; just a cancellation of the marriage as though it never occurred. I'm assuming your husband is incapable of penetration or ejaculation and hence you could argue he has never consummated the marriage as evidenced by the lack of children.
2. $1000 pm is not a lot to send back. That's less than half of the child support I pay in Singapore. Your husband isn't rich in my books and not at all by high income earning Singaporeans - even some single women I know here earn >$10,000 PM and they are certainly not doctors or lawyers etc. Don't set your sights too low!
3. In my completely random way of thinking you would be best to convince your husband to move somewhere else where you can 1. Utilize your qualifications and earn more and 2. Undergo IVF or AI to have a child ASAP and 3. Sue him for divorce in a jurisdiction where common property laws apply. One state that comes to mind is California or perhaps even Australia. Go somewhere where there aren't a bunch of Indians already if that is possible.

I had an Indian national employee (Male) who had chromosomal issues and he transitioned to being a woman. While he can't have children as a woman he is much happier as a woman and is well accepted in Singapore. Perhaps your DH fate will be the same one day when you have secured your finances and can release him from his chains.

My husband doesn't earn 1000 SGD, he earns. Close to 10 times this amount.
This is the amount he sends to my family.
Had he earned this it was highly unlikely SG would give him a PR in today's economic climate
So as per his earnings he sends a very small part of that to my family
Of course I am still extremely aware that I should be grateful whatever he sends but this is his earning.
He's well educated and earns highly by Indian standards

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 5:19 pm

OK, so your husband is sending about (or exactly) S$1000/month to your family members living in India, approximately 10% of his gross income. Understood.

Assuming you and your husband part ways, and assuming you decide to shoulder that S$1000/month remittance flow on your own, from your income -- both big assumptions, of course -- would you have enough income to take care of at least your basic, reasonable, and non-lavish living expenses in Singapore? If not, would you be able to generate more income -- by increasing from part-time to full-time employment, for example, if applicable -- to meet or exceed that goal?

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby RoastBeefBaron » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 5:25 pm

Even a job paying $5,000 should leave enough for savings and the $1,000 remittance. That's provided you live with a friend and don't go out. But then you'll be newly single so you'd probably want to go out hunting for fresh meat. In that case, get the guys to buy you your glasses of wine.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 8:52 pm

Op did say that she was educated, I think the direction she would need to take is to get a job, send some money back to her parents, and save enough money to be financially independent.
Even a low paying job that fetches 3k is enough.. That's what a fresh graduate gets more or less.
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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby bhurirav » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:19 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:This woman is as bad as all her evil family members, she is ungrateful towards her husband who pays for her and her family, she doesn't mind leaving him because of what him and his family did, but not before extracting her pound of flesh, that is having him pay for her lifestyle and also marrying off her sister. She is seen as protecting her parents and sister and that is priority over everything else, she is no less manipulative than her husbands family she portrayed as evil, eg having thoughts to blackmail her husband.
Almost every other family in India has elements of this sort, plotting,scheming and manipulating.
Why am I not surprised? 95% of regional tv shows are just about this aspect.


If you bother going through my previous posts, you would see that I have repeatedly mentioned that it would be "ungrateful" to leave husband after all that he did for me and my family.

I mentioned gratitude before you, I do have doubts and second thoughts on this issue.

However, there are several important difference between what my husband does for me and my family vs what what he had tried to do regarding this girl whom you call Y and her family.

Husband sends 1000 SGD to my family, as I mentioned this is a very small part of his earning, before you mention I shall repeat that I am grateful whatever he sends, he had no obligation to help them(I later found out a secret and compelled him somewhat to send more, but he would send around 500 SGD even before that), he still did it- but coming back to the point, what he had planned to do would've spoiled this girl and her family's life, had that plan succeeded, which in no way really compares to the small part of his total income sent home voluntarily.

As I said, motherhood was extremely important to her, I saw him and his friend whom you call X discuss this plan in detail before X married Y, he would tell her what to tell this girl over Skype, he taught his friend to even mention future children's names.

Later on, when Y started getting suspicious with X's lack of interest in a normal conjugal life & was both furious and extremely suspicious with the fraudulent long distance for higher education plans, my husband would tutor X about what to say.

Had this plan succeeded(again it most likely wouldn't, but still my husband did plan for it to succeed)- we would've eaten a good decade or so of Y's life with trying to pretend nothing's wrong, she'd eventually be a mom etc, X really has dreams of this higher education which will make him successful etc etc, extracted money from her via her job(and we'd all hoped she'd get and be able to keep a high earning job and there was a lot more in the plan which I don't want to disclose as I don't want anyone to figure out my real identity) in the interim and then finally may have informed her sometime in her late 30's that X had developed an illness.

So she would never become a mom, and her parents never become grandparents- but they would've extracted all financial benefits, she with her educational and professional background would probably have got the PR X was incapable of getting, and finally husband had hoped his friend would sell off his ancestral property in India and they would open something together in SG with that.

When Y refused to live in such an abnormal life and demanded that if X is incapable of a normal married life, she'd like to break off the marriage, husband recommended X didn't give Y any money, so she would start searching for a job sooner and they could put their plan to action asap. Y was starved of food and money in a foreign land, before she ended this charade.

It was a ridiculous and impractical plan, any beautiful, educated and accomplished girl would've seen through it, and so would her well to do, professionally successful family and even with all the Indian stigma of divorce would want out of this kind of "marriage", but the point is not stupidity, its the level of exploitation they are capable of thinking of.

This is very different from a 1000 SGD sent to my family voluntarily.

Husband also tutored X who is even dumber than my husband(and who husband now blames for the plan's failure) about what lies to say to Y's parents about his higher education dreams etc.

Also, my family actually needed this money, whereas for husband and his family it was primarily greed. Another difference.

And TV shows are, while based on reality, a widely exaggerated version of reality, so its a bit odd to judge Indians based on tv shows.
Last edited by bhurirav on Wed, 30 Mar 2016 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby bhurirav » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:39 pm

ecureilx wrote:
BBCWatcher wrote:"Because our friends are having kids and think we're odd" is a supremely bad reason to decide to have a child, which is at least what you implied. Please don't do that, at least for the child's sake.


With 100% zero malice, you need to have some sensitivity to Indian culture, when you come out with suggestions. Especially when the lady here seems to be educated and smart enough to have known what she was getting into.

In The Sub-continent, being single is taboo, beyond an age. Heck, it's bad.

And the parents will the ridicule of the town and will be taunted if their offsprings aren't married at a certain age. And suggestions will range from mild to extremely terrible.

Once the marriage happens, if baby doesn't come within a year or so, again, the parents will be taunted, ridiculed, and even may see invites for weddings etc being dropped- as the children who don't produce babies = unlucky parents = don't invite them for weddings where they will become back luck.

And there is a lot of social pressure to 'get things done'.

Again, I am of the belief you meant no malice, but, suggestions to go for artificial insemination, adoption etc are against a lot of sub-con peoples' belief that a) marriage will get things settled, and once married if things don't go the right way, b) having a baby will get things resolved.

And Marriage + Baby is the universal solution in the Sub-Continent for even schizophrenics, gays, seizures, intellectually challenged and all .. And yes, that's how things go.

bhurirav wrote:@All
I will try to reply to all others tomorrow
please do not judge me, none of you are exactly in my shoes.


I doubt anybody here is judging you, but it's a bit perplexing for you to come here, spill sordid details, and then insist you are not to be judged, and then I wonder what you would like to hear.

That you are confident that you are doing the right thing in sucking the soul and money out of the man who trusted you, well, I don't know what to say.


ecureilx,

What you say about the taboos surrounding being single is what prompted husband, his family and friend and his family to arrange the wedding, friend with his effeminate mannerisms, desire to stay as far away from his hometown(in spite of the huge wealth and access to a privileged social circle he had there) and not getting married despite being long past marriageable age in his family and even being a little late by Indians in SG standards, meant that people in our hometown and even those in SG familiar with his heritage were whispering and worse about what could be wrong with him, he was indeed unmarriageable, but this was too embarrassing for him and his family to admit, both for reasons generally prevalent in the sub con and reasons specific to friend's family and circumstances, which I won't elaborate on.

Friend had actually wished to remain single, or have a marriage with a girl with similar issues, with mutual consent, all options he had discussed with his parents, but they didn't like those options, as that too would mean pretty much acknowledging something was indeed wrong with this guy.

Not many girls would've even agreed to AI with donor sperm, like this one did, at least not such beautiful, accomplished, well to do ones, and friend was not keen to show the magnanimity of raising another's child and giving everything to that child, if he couldn't produce one, he was keener of appearing great by donating to charity. Husband too was of course not keen on AI with donor when it came to friend, he had eyes on friend's wealth, not keen to see it given to some other person's kid. :evil:

They thought if they could get a pretty, accomplished, well to do girl to stay in this marriage on their terms
it would make a plausible story, and their desires would succeed.

What happened was what was likely to happen, girl left, extracted her pound of flesh and confirmed what people were whispering.

Husband had from the time I knew him, admitted he felt very jealous of his friend because friend didn't have to think about his future, while husband had to work terribly hard for everything. Knowing this friend was sexually reproductively malfunctioning meant that husband started dreaming of getting this for himself. :twisted:

I think PGMNK mentioned AI etc options, husband doesn't want to do all that, I however think he would be okay with adoption as long as I took the blame upon myself of not being capable of having kids. ](*,)

As for "sucking life and soul of man who trusted me" and more on those lines, I had to laugh :lol:

Husband has often belittled me and joined his parents' in belittling me about my poor family and lack of earning ability, he has told me that were he not bi, he certainly wouldn't have married such a poor cow, incapable of earning or having a well off family.

He stays with me too because of this, and sends even this small sum to my home due to his bisexuality, which I will elaborate upon later.

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Re: Please help serious family problem Indian woman

Postby bhurirav » Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:44 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:I don't think divorce carries the same stigma as it did some years ago.. No one really cares anymore, 50% of my classmates are divorced and have all remarried quite successfully, so please don't hype and dramatize it.
Plus you seem to be well educated to.. And since by divorcing you don't necessarily lose your pr status do you? You can always find some man here in Singapore who'd be more open minded than someone back home.
Regarding your financial status, id adivse you to find a job in Singapore, rent a room/co share an apartment with some others move out and live separately, learn to be financially independent maybe?


I would say that the divorce rate in my circle is somewhere near 10%, and yes it does carry some stigma, one has to show very good reasons for getting divorced, and what explanation will I give, if not the truth? Without reasons, it is seen as even worse.

As I said, the nature of my education won't immediately permit me to get a highly paying job.


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