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ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 7:51 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:OK, so I've provided links to the information the government itself provides. That includes what the MFA says about ex-citizens becoming PRs. Maybe you don't like what the MFA says, but there it is.


20) Male ex-Singapore Citizens and ex-Singapore Permanent Residents who are granted Singapore PR status are liable to be called up for NS regardless of the type of PR status they are granted.


How many ex-citizens do you think a) would return with that Damocles Sword hanging over their heads if they are professionals and middle aged?

As I said before, what is written in the statutes and what is practiced are often two entirely different things. The Government ALWAYS leaves themselves a backdoor. It's just like Penal Code 377A. It's on the books but it isn't really used in normal situations. They give themselves the leeway to use it if the occasion warrants it. Same situation. What you read is one thing. What is practiced is another. Neither MS nor myself has any personal anecdotal evidence and he was extremely well connected when he was in the government before migrating with his family. Here we try not to blow smoke up our readers arses. But if you continue, you will eventually get a rep here by our readers for only printing crap that isn't realistic even if it is true by legislation. Carry on. :-|

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 8:08 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:OK, so I've provided links to the information the government itself provides. That includes what the MFA says about ex-citizens becoming PRs. Maybe you don't like what the MFA says, but there it is.


20) Male ex-Singapore Citizens and ex-Singapore Permanent Residents who are granted Singapore PR status are liable to be called up for NS regardless of the type of PR status they are granted.


How many ex-citizens do you think a) would return with that Damocles Sword hanging over their heads if they are professionals and middle aged?

As I said before, what is written in the statutes and what is practiced are often two entirely different things. The Government ALWAYS leaves themselves a backdoor. It's just like Penal Code 377A. It's on the books but it isn't really used in normal situations. They give themselves the leeway to use it if the occasion warrants it. Same situation. What you read is one thing. What is practiced is another. Neither MS nor myself has any personal anecdotal evidence and he was extremely well connected when he was in the government before migrating with his family. Here we try not to blow smoke up our readers arses. But if you continue, you will eventually get a rep here by our readers for only printing crap that isn't realistic even if it is true by legislation.

Oh, If the OP is like most we get here all he saw was "Zegnaangelo, I suggest you put in a PR application". When you already should know the odds are at the moment 99.99% against it as there is no history of the government having ever done so 'even though it is "in the statutes". That is blowing smoke up the OP arse. That's not what we do here. We try to tell them the flat honest truth. This is why we put so much stock in anecdotal evidence here, just in case something, interpretation wise, changes as the Government will not publish it nor will the newspapers (if they want to keep their licenses). Most here don't try to either baffle them with BS or dazzle them with brilliance as it usually just flies over their heads and English often (most likely) is not their first language anyway. :-|

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 9:04 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:When you already should know the odds are at the moment 99.99% against it as there is no history of the government having ever done so 'even though it is "in the statutes".

OK, Zegnaangelo, you now have one forum participant's estimate of your odds. For what it's worth.

I didn't and won't take a guess.

I would add there seem to be a fair number of individuals who claim to be ex-Singaporeans (and ex-PRs) who are now working in Singapore on Employment Passes. That's another possible option.

Good luck, and please let us know what happens.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby singaporeflyer » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 9:35 pm

zegnaangelo wrote:5/ Looking to apply for PR now though - makes it much easier to come in / out the country and perhaps even buy a flat together at some stage...

Hi BBCWatcher,based on the above, the OP clearly has indicated on some reasons why he would need a PR. Will Employment Pass be of help for the same? Kindly do not mistake. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 6:32 am

BBCWatcher wrote:OK, so I've provided links to the information the government itself provides. That includes what the MFA says about ex-citizens becoming PRs. Maybe you don't like what the MFA says, but there it is.

So what do you suggest, folks? I suggest Zegnaangelo put in a PR application if he wishes (and/or LTVP application if possible) and see what happens. Is anybody disagreeing?


There you go again. Shooting yourself in the foot. I suggest if you know Sh*t just close your trap door or else you will fall into the pit

MFA is NOT ICA and ICA is not Mindef. They work in tandem but they have their own sets of rules

Real ife example which I came across
Years ago I have met this family of five in Penrith Sydney. They migrated here for kids education. Did the whole nine yards on NS things and got approved. The dad never get used to the life here.
Try his hardest to regain his SG citizenship back for many years, never got through the first hurdle.
One of the correspondence for SG gahmen was said you can apply but your sons must come back to serve NS although they are no longer SG citizen. I said what !!!!!
The last sentence states every application will be assess on its merit. He died three years ago in Woloogong without any success
Second example but different topic
SGers/PRs are not allowed to drive Malaysian cars in Singapore
We all know this rule. But I knew first hand that LTA bends the rule if you are willing to pay the importation cost etc. In LTA application states clearly that if you are working in Malaysia , you are allowed certain free days in a year to enter Singapore with your Malaysian car. You only have to pay the entry/exit fees snd that's about it. You submit with a host of supporting docs so that LTA can assess on its own merit.
But if you want more than these you pay the OTT importation cost PARF /ARF or whatever they call it and you can drive in and out like any Malaysian drivers and only pay the toll fees and LTA charges only like any foreign cars

Where does it states on the website ? None

Methinks you search the website for hours on end.Cut and paste whatever is there. This is dangerous and it provides a wrong impression on the ground as rules are meant to be broken.
OP knows this and he is trying to finds ways to circumvent this law. Renunciation in Singapore is a One Way ticket on a slippery slope with no chance of going back
Constitution is set in stone.
Statutes is NOT but can be revised under cabinet white papers and need to go for parliament sitting in order to be approved for changes
Guidelines and ruling are meant to be tinkered around the edges based on current issues and does not need any parliament approval. "Assessed based on its own merits"

BTW I have known and seen at 28 years of age Sgers still serve their NS for one reason or another. So your statement about NS age around 20s is not right too
Even NS liabilities for male child who wish to defer is not a straight cut out thing. One has to negotiate the minefields to avoid setting off the mines. I had done this by myself before I am able to briefly advise others the pros and cons. The guidelines are there but you need to think like them before you make any move.
Many before me said when LKY passed on things will change on this issue especially on Dual Citizenship . Now, LHL is at the roost and looks like it ain't gonna happen at all.

I asked you these questions to put a stop on your infos gathering. It is not what I liked or not but your facts gatherings are wrong in many folds.
I have no knowledge on US laws when you were corresponding with ricedoll and I am in awe with the knowledge you have come to know. Now I realised you are more of "passed the bucket knowledge with no comprehension on its absolute implication. That being said I do know about SG laws and even myself when I put it out , I stand to be corrected as guidelines changes, For ex Sgers to reapply as LTVP or PR or even back as Sgers I have yet to come across over 30 years
For ex PR to regain PR back yes but that was about 15 years ago. Now I am not so sure. It is approved on its own merits.

Even SMS who deals with MOM everyday cannot be 100% sure for every application for work permit is approved and he has done this for 25 years or maybe more !!

BTW are you a PR in Singapore or Sgers ?
Have you serve NS ?
Are you working for the gahmen ?

It is very different from countries eg OZ/NZ/UK/European application for PR and work visas etc. What is stated on the website is what it is so you can literally take it as correct and true
Some countries even guides you on how to get it approve for you application.
I am a triple nationals and a PR in Sweden so I based on my own experience
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 6:46 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:So what do you suggest, folks? I suggest Zegnaangelo put in a PR application if he wishes (and/or LTVP application if possible) and see what happens. Is anybody disagreeing?


I don't wanna be seen as rubbing it in .. but .. in my +++ years in Singapore, I never saw ICA accept two applications for an applicant. And definitely not at the same time. I may be corrected if you have irrefutable proof otherwise. Your suggestion *as some of your other suggestions* are methods to short circuit the system - and invariably, it will lead to both applications being rejected.

Say, there is an LTVP application pending, go to ICA to submit a PR application. Or otherwise. Officer will go- "you have another application pending, do wait for the outcome before submitting PR Application".

Likewise, when a LTVP or PR application is pending for too long, you go in to submit an appeal hoping to bolster your case, response from ICA has generally been "Wait for the outcome of the current application before submitting an appeal".

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby ricedoll » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 7:31 pm

First, are you eligible for a LTVP if you are 1)retired 2)not working 3)spouse is not working? I am also thinking in the super far future the day my husband (non-SC) and I (SC) retire, of course coupled with one or two (SC) teens (regardless where they are studying/working). Will LTVP be granted in such cases? For a non-SC to retire in SG with the SC spouse?

Second, for this thread-starter, if you want a PR - do you intend to work in SG? Or just apply and keep for future use? I heard you need a job in SG to maintain a REP and a PR.


:)

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby singaporeflyer » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 7:34 pm

ricedoll wrote:I heard you need a job in SG to maintain a REP and a PR.


This is only if the PR is obtained under the PTS scheme and not via the Family Ties scheme.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby x9200 » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:14 pm

ecureilx wrote:
BBCWatcher wrote:So what do you suggest, folks? I suggest Zegnaangelo put in a PR application if he wishes (and/or LTVP application if possible) and see what happens. Is anybody disagreeing?


I don't wanna be seen as rubbing it in .. but .. in my +++ years in Singapore, I never saw ICA accept two applications for an applicant. And definitely not at the same time. I may be corrected if you have irrefutable proof otherwise.

I even reported it here. When I was applying for PR for my son this was an ICA front desk guy who suggested to apply for him LTVP at the same time. My son got LTVP first and 3 months later PR. A different situation but as of the principle apparently you are wrong.

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Re: RE: Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:17 pm

x9200 wrote:I even reported it here. When I was applying for PR for my son this was ICA who suggested to apply for him LTVP at the same time. A different situation but as of the principle apparently you are wrong.


Suggestion by the authority vs deciding to put in multiple application- same same but different ;)

I do agree with your experience, by the way.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby ricedoll » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:30 pm

Can you explain the Family Ties Scheme PR? We recently submitted my husband's PR application and we both currently live overseas. We plan to have his PR first, and if in the future there's any good/better job opportunities we might return and live. Can we maintain an active PR from overseas, according to the Family Ties Scheme?

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby singaporeflyer » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:37 pm

ricedoll wrote:Can you explain the Family Ties Scheme PR? We recently submitted my husband's PR application and we both currently live overseas. We plan to have his PR first, and if in the future there's any good/better job opportunities we might return and live. Can we maintain an active PR from overseas, according to the Family Ties Scheme?

According to my knowledge, if one in the couple is SC and has sponsored the other for PR using the PR for Spouse of SC scheme, during the renewal of REP for the PR, if the PR is not working (but resides in SG), it should not be an issue.

Only if the PR is obtained via the PTS scheme, the PR is expected to be on work during the time of REP renewal.

But I am not sure if the both the SC and PR (obtained via Spouse of SC scheme) are overseas and trying to maintain the PR ( via REP renewal).
Last edited by singaporeflyer on Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby x9200 » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:39 pm

ricedoll wrote:Can you explain the Family Ties Scheme PR? We recently submitted my husband's PR application and we both currently live overseas. We plan to have his PR first, and if in the future there's any good/better job opportunities we might return and live. Can we maintain an active PR from overseas, according to the Family Ties Scheme?

Are you aware that if your husband gains the PR status he will need to pay a de facto tax in a form of completely useless in his case medical insurance? Knowing your sentiments from the other thread I though you should be warned.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby ricedoll » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:55 pm

My question is whether he can maintain his PR while working and living overseas? PR sponsored by spouse.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby BBCWatcher » Sat, 05 Mar 2016 8:56 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:Constitution is set in stone.

OK, but there is nothing I can find in the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore that bars a former citizen from becoming a Permanent Resident. (The citizenship provisions are in Part X if you'd like to take a look.)

Statutes is NOT but can be revised under cabinet white papers and need to go for parliament sitting in order to be approved for changes

OK, let's take a look. Here one: Section 11A paragraph (5) of the Immigration Act specifically allows ICA to issue a pass or permit to a former citizen.

Those are two important facts, so thank you for suggesting we look at the Constitution, acts, and regulations. Everything else in your post appears to be your personal opinion and/or speculation. Fair enough, but please note I have not offered a view on the probability of PR approval. I don't know who you're arguing with.


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