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ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

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zegnaangelo
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ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby zegnaangelo » Thu, 03 Mar 2016 3:43 pm

So here are the facts :)

1/ I'm ex-Singaporean, did my NS, married to Singaporean wife but gave up my Singapore citizenship a few years ago after ICA made me choose (I had to declare I had a foreign passport when I went to renew my Singapore passport)
2/ Never worked in Singapore before [thus minimal CPF - i left my few hundred dollars $$ from my edusave I got in secondary school there still :)], but perhaps looking to do so over the near future if an opportunity arises
3/ Currently working overseas, basic salary perhaps S$15,000 p.m
4/ Wife not working so obviously not able to sponsor. Have a kid [daughter] who is registered as a Singapore citizen
5/ Looking to apply for PR now though - makes it much easier to come in / out the country and perhaps even buy a flat together at some stage...

Think I will have a good chance of applying PR from overseas with my wife as sponsor? :???:
Last edited by zegnaangelo on Fri, 04 Mar 2016 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 8:24 am

Others will comment but I see a few + and - as well as some missing info. Did you withdraw your CPF? You may have to pay it back. Is your child a son? How old?
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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby zegnaangelo » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 9:08 am

PNGMK wrote:Others will comment but I see a few + and - as well as some missing info. Did you withdraw your CPF? You may have to pay it back. Is your child a son? How old?


yes i added some info above.
1. did not withdraw cpf (minimal anyway as never worked in singapore before)
2. child is daughter.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 9:13 am

It'd be an intriguing PR application for ICA to consider. Regarding NS, although you fulfilled the full-time service (the most important part) technically you skipped at least some of the recurrent training, I assume. Maybe/probably that won't matter, but NS doesn't actually end at age 20 or thereabouts.

If you have to pick up NS recurrent training (still young enough), I'd make sure ICA knows you're willing, in a letter.

You could also ask the Singapore High Commission/Embassy whether you could apply for an LTVP from overseas if PR doesn't work out, or if you prefer. The LTVP now allows subordinate employment in Singapore with a Letter of Consent, just like the DP. You can't start your own business or be self-employed, though. But it's easier to get than PR.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby x9200 » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 9:29 am

The situation is IMO tricky as normally PR is seen as a bridge towards the citizenship and the OP already rejected the later leaving little doubts about his intentions (easier access to the local job market and long term stay). Also with the wife not working this makes the whereabouts of the family completely dependant on the OP. I feel the OP may have problems to get it regardless of the scheme.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 12:20 pm

True, but we've seen how the PM himself wants young Singaporeans, especially highly talented ones, and their families to come back to Singapore and (re)plant roots. OK then, here's an opportunity for ICA.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby x9200 » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 12:32 pm

Yep, but the OP doesn't want to be a Singaporean.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 12:53 pm

x9200 wrote:Yep, but the OP doesn't want to be a Singaporean.


Perhaps DIDN'T is the better word.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 1:32 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:It'd be an intriguing PR application for ICA to consider. Regarding NS, although you fulfilled the full-time service (the most important part) technically you skipped at least some of the recurrent training, I assume. Maybe/probably that won't matter, but NS doesn't actually end at age 20 or thereabouts.

If you have to pick up NS recurrent training (still young enough), I'd make sure ICA knows you're willing, in a letter.

You could also ask the Singapore High Commission/Embassy whether you could apply for an LTVP from overseas if PR doesn't work out, or if you prefer. The LTVP now allows subordinate employment in Singapore with a Letter of Consent, just like the DP. You can't start your own business or be self-employed, though. But it's easier to get than PR.


BBC ; I have been at the sidelines and reading alot of your posts and comments. While those about US matters and its intricacies are rather intriguing and complex which I have no clue but for Singapore Law and its Statutues I am definitely familiar with to say the least I have gone down this path.
Tell me where did you find this facts about ex Singaporean ability of applying PR or for that matter is your advise based on hearsay ? Those in bold are very questionable
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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 2:28 pm

Thanks MS. I don't have to jump into this one. ;-) How's things, mate? Good I hope!

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 3:53 pm

Tell me where did you find this facts about ex Singaporean ability of applying PR or for that matter is your advise based on hearsay ? Those in bold are very questionable

OK, the first point is a statement of fact with no particular controversy, one would hope. I described the fact that NSmen have ongoing responsibilities for several years after full-time national service. Much more information is available from MINDEF here, including details on how overseas resident NSmen must stay connected. Importantly the original poster served his full-time NS, but I pointed out (correctly) that he (apparently) did not fulfill subsequent responsibilities. It would not be accurate to say that he fulfilled all his NS responsibilities. (Or, more precisely, he did not fulfill all the NS responsibilities a Singapore citizen male, with an intact citizenship, would have had. This is not a criticism.)

I have included some speculation upthread about ICA's views on a particular applicant, but that's all it can be: speculation, accurately labeled as such. There is no published rule, regulation, or law providing any specific guidance as far as I'm aware. That said, we have some circumstantial evidence from the government that it is possible. For example, in May, 2014, Singapore's Manpower Minister was asked whether former citizens and former PRs -- specifically those who had withdrawn their CPF balances -- could return to Singapore to work. He said that evaluations will be done to determine their suitability, and that the government will look into their track record and history before making a decision. We also have this thread, in this very forum, where SMS made the same assertion with respect to former citizens receiving LTVPs specifically. (Yes, it is possible.)

We also have this evidence from Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Item 20 on that page specifically refers to ex-citizens and ex-PRs being granted PR. Given what the MFA published on that page my recommendation to the original poster about his PR application is directly on point.

I would say the available evidence settles that question: yes, it is possible for ex-citizens to be granted PR status (or LTVPs, or EPs). The government itself says so, more than once.

My opinion is that ICA will consider avoidance of full-time NS much more negatively than missing post full-time NS responsibilities. Yes, that's speculation, labeled as such. It's not unreasonable speculation.

The second part you bolded is also correct. ("You can ask" kicks off that first sentence, importantly.) My characterization of the LTVP is factual and correct. Letters of Consent are now available from MoM for LTVP holders. That changed recently, starting on February 1, 2015. More details are available here from the Ministry of Manpower.

Is there anything you specifically disagree with?

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 4:44 pm

I disagree with the blowing of smoke. The problem is, people read selectively on a forum as they are looking for a specific answer so they tend to not catch strategically placed disclaimers. While everything you mention 'is theoretically possible', even the minister did not allude to if it has ever actually happened. The reason is that the government always leaves themselves a backdoor so if they need it in the future they can say 'well the law has been there since....' So, when we tell somebody that according to ICA or MOM or Mindef or CMPB they can do something, if we don't have any anecdotal evidence of it happening, it would have to be rare or not ever having happened.
For example, in May, 2014, Singapore's Manpower Minister was asked whether former citizens and former PRs -- specifically those who had withdrawn their CPF balances -- could return to Singapore to work. He said that evaluations will be done to determine their suitability, and that the government will look into their track record and history before making a decision.
While this is true, there is no indication whether they would give an ex-citizen PR again but we are aware of ex-citizens returning on EPs.

From the overseassingaporean.sg....
Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

There are several factors to be kept in mind regarding the renunciation of your Singapore citizenship. This move can have far-reaching implications and the decision must be made after careful thought and scrutiny. Once the decision to renounce Singapore citizenship is made, there are documents to be submitted and procedural guidelines to be followed. Detailed below is all that you would need to know about renouncing your Singapore citizenship.

Implications of Singapore Citizenship Renunciation
If you are thinking about renouncing Singapore citizenship, it is important to think of the implications of this decision. According to the Singapore Immigration and Checkpoints Authority, once your declaration for renunciation is registered:

You will cease to be a citizen of Singapore.

Citizen benefits such as subsidies in health-care, education, taxation, employment and other privileges will cease to be applicable.

There is no provision for reinstatement.

There is also no assurance that you can continue to work or reside in Singapore as a foreigner on any type of employment permit or as a Permanent Resident.


More specifically, as PR is meant as a means/stepping stone to Citizenship in it's concept, it is extremely doubtful that PR would ever be entertained. So it would be silly to infer that they will be able to get it. Remember, they don't read for nuances but whether or not it's been done. That's why we try to stay with anecdotal evidence when possible.

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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 5:15 pm

[color=#0000FF]@BBC : What a load of rubbish !!!

You have no single clue what you are talking about. Basically stabbing in the dark with a banana.
Let me put it very clear for all to know. Singapore Citizenship is a given for all born in Singapore or overseas to any one of the parent of Singapore Descent. But if you are born overseas from a Singapore Parent. You have have to acquire it not given

For PR parents, your child if born in Singapore will be invited to become Singapore Citizen on its "own merit" not otherwise


Now once you renounce your Singapore citizenship be it here or overseas, there are a 10 pages document you have to filled up before you can allow to renounce

For male one must complete NS and serve his 13 year cycle or serve NS but managed to defer till the age 40 or serve NS only . Male applicant must have gained foreign citizenship prior to this application
There are about 15 points to take note before you renounce
In this document, it states clearly once your renunciation is accepted , you cannot regain your citizenship nor employment or any special pass except social visit pass i.e Tourist

I have encountered many ex Singaporean from Nano Scientist to molecular researcher, All very talented and in high demand in Singapore and we even met LHL and you know what he basically gives us the big middle finger not literally but his face spoke a thousand word

You know why i know this because I have gone thru these myself and my kids and I used to work for the Gahmen

So before you start BS others , get a grip of yourself and please do not throw smoke screen cos you will choke yourself
[/color][/color]
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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 5:21 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Thanks MS. I don't have to jump into this one. ;-) How's things, mate? Good I hope!


Body holding up. Will go for hip and knee reconstruction soon due to the wear tear over the years from contact sport, TKD and unarmed combat

But I am leaving again for Fiji to help the rebuilding there with my Ozzies mates before my ops

How's the wife ? and yourself ?

I heard SE has gone back to US ?True ?
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Re: ex Singaporean husband w/ Singapore wife

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 6:55 pm

OK, so I've provided links to the information the government itself provides. That includes what the MFA says about ex-citizens becoming PRs. Maybe you don't like what the MFA says, but there it is.

So what do you suggest, folks? I suggest Zegnaangelo put in a PR application if he wishes (and/or LTVP application if possible) and see what happens. Is anybody disagreeing?


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