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Should we appeal for pr ?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby singaporeflyer » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 3:26 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:Singaporeflyer: I think the concern you raise was merited back when LTVP holders couldn't work in Singapore. Yes, back then an EP holder would look more attractive than a LTVP holder, other things being equal. But that changed fairly recently. Both LTVP and LTVP+ holders can now work with Letters of Consent, so the employment and income characteristics ICA has to consider are the same (or could even be better since a job change becomes somewhat easier). Or did you have something else in mind?


Nope. What I meant was as a EP holder, the applicant is already checked for multiple requirements like years of experience, salary, educational qualifications etc which are more stringent (self dependent without any sponsor) when compared to LOC for LTVP requirements.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 3:55 pm

I might agree with that, but in this case all of that has already been accomplished, those boxes ticked. ICA will still have the applicant's entire history, including Employment Pass history, to consider.

I understand that PR comes with some benefits that the LTVP and EP do not. (And also a few obligations.) But what do you want as a couple? Are you interested in immigration stability? Or are you mainly or exclusively interested in chasing a few government benefits? Married couples vary of course, but many of them consider immigration stability to be their #1 priority. A LTVP accomplishes that rather well. (A PEP is another option for some, once per lifetime and for a limited time. It offers some more stability than a EP. It's not an option in this case.)

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby singaporeflyer » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 4:04 pm

The OP's husband has been on EP for 4 years even when the OP was a PR (Indicating that he was self qualified and self dependent ) eventhough they are a family. The option for LTVP holders to be eligible for LOC was issued in Sep 2015 and so If the OP's husband changes from EP to LTVP after sometime, will ICA see it positively is the consideration. There is a chance that they may not totally see this from this view also.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 4:25 pm

Wouldn't a LTVP suggest a desire to plant roots in Singapore, to stay in Singapore with one's spouse -- and not be guided solely by one employer's whims?

I suppose we could second guess ICA all day, but even if I'm second guessing I don't see the problem.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby singaporeflyer » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 4:34 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:Wouldn't a LTVP suggest a desire to plant roots in Singapore, to stay in Singapore with one's spouse -- and not be guided solely by one employer's whims?

I suppose we could second guess ICA all day, but even if I'm second guessing I don't see the problem.


I already said that ICA may not see it the way I said too, if you read a couple of postings before.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby zinc32 » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 9:49 pm

Agree to your thoughts bbc watcher and singapore flyer ... Interesting names :-)

I will consider on these advices they are constructive and add values to our case ... Just to add on when my husband came to sg he was on LTVP and then moved to EP then we didn't have the loc concept .., LTVP now may not be viewed negatively as earlier when loc wasn't permitted ... Either case no one seems to be recommending for an appeal

Would anyone here any positive experiences or outcomes of appeals that could be shared on this forum and the circumstances leading to the same ..



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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 9:57 pm

Yes, when the LTVP+ and later the LTVP revised to also include employment, it was seen by some as a means of avoiding an impending cutback or recessionary period if they lost their EPs so a fair number did just that, switched from EP to LTVP so as to be ahead of the game. Some got caught out by the employer (not really, but the employers then said, well, you are now being sponsored by the spouse, therefore any "expat" perks shriveled up and disappeared. There are always trade-offs and usually the employer wins the bigger share. However, the employee does gain somewhat more security in today's economy.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby singaporeflyer » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 9:58 pm

zinc32 wrote:Agree to your thoughts bbc watcher and singapore flyer ... Interesting names :-)

Would anyone here any positive experiences or outcomes of appeals that could be shared on this forum and the circumstances leading to the same ..

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Based on the information that we have in this forum, atleast in the last 5-6 years, we are not aware of any appeals for PR being approved. It would be good, if you could consider to wait for 1-1.5 years and then submit a new application.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby zinc32 » Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:19 pm

Providing loc to LTVP should have been done much earlier I recollect how easy it was for an EP holder to get his spouse on dp and get a job via loc but for pr/ sc spouse this facility wasn't available making them at a disadvantageous position. What an irony ...


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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 03 Mar 2016 8:59 am

zinc32 wrote:Would anyone here any positive experiences or outcomes of appeals that could be shared on this forum and the circumstances leading to the same ..


With the disclaimer, I don't know everything ...

Though it is not addressed to me, I have seen appeals for PR sometimes succeeding, where the spouse of the applicant is a PR/SC.

Cases where there was success, for example:

1) Initially rejected, then appeal submitted, when the appeal was reviewed 4 months later, the applicant was able to produce new pay slips showing a higher pay - so, that being the difference, maybe that's why it was successful.

2) Initially rejected, then appeal submitted, when went to review by ICA, ICA hinted the Spouse's REP was expiring soon. Spouse renewed REP and went to ICA with the filled forms, pronto approved.

3) Applied under family ties, and Initially rejected, and then while appeal was in progress, the applicant was able to get a job. And upon appeal, got it.

So (with the usual disclaimer), my 2 cents says, unless there was a change and visible to ICA, appeals don't work, including those that get reviewed due to MP letters to ICA. And a lot of 'maybe' - where appeals worked.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby zinc32 » Thu, 03 Mar 2016 3:05 pm

Thanks ecureixl .

Just thinking aloud similar to some application for kids on LTVP where parents have directly applied for their citizenship as a family ( surpassing the pr route)

Wanted to know if

1) will this be allowed in my case son , ( pending pr) husband (EP) and myself ( pr) put a citizenship application as a family ... Wanted to know if 1) ica will accept this ? And has this been done by anyone yet ... Chances of success as we are looking at from a whole family perspective or will they just reject saying first get pr for husband and son and wait for 2 yrs before applying


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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 03 Mar 2016 3:10 pm

zinc32 wrote:Thanks ecureixl .



Short answer ?

I don't know.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby singaporeflyer » Thu, 03 Mar 2016 3:19 pm

zinc32 wrote:Thanks ecureixl .

Just thinking aloud similar to some application for kids on LTVP where parents have directly applied for their citizenship as a family ( surpassing the pr route)

Wanted to know if

1) will this be allowed in my case son , ( pending pr) husband (EP) and myself ( pr) put a citizenship application as a family ... Wanted to know if 1) ica will accept this ? And has this been done by anyone yet ... Chances of success as we are looking at from a whole family perspective or will they just reject saying first get pr for husband and son and wait for 2 yrs before applying


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Will not be able to directly move from non PR status to Citizen for applicants greater than 21 years of age, even though they apply as a family for citizenship (where one of the applicant is PR). Not sure about the same case for children. For adults the 2 years of PR criteria will still apply.

Usually what I understand, as applying for citizenship as a whole family, is the whole family who are all PR (atleast members who are PR), apply together for citizenship, not leaving anyone to still remain as PR.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby bro75 » Thu, 03 Mar 2016 8:44 pm

2 PR parents can apply for citizenship as a family together with their LTVP children.

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Re: Should we appeal for pr ?

Postby sgstrait » Fri, 04 Mar 2016 11:12 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
All other soft points : community involvement , volunteering , insurance purchased in sg .. We are Indians in case you are wondering on the race.

=D>

Nope we weren't wondering on the race. The sentence before told us. Those things have been done to death by applicants over the past 5-8 years and not it's not even a talking point let along a soft point. Too many have joined in for a year so that they could get brownie points while trying to get PR or Citizenship and as soon as they get it all charitable works stop except that which benefits themselves. I know. I've been a GRL for the past 7 years and I've seen it numerous times as has the rest of Singapore. ICA isn't stupid.


This is so true. I actually volunteered when I first arrived on these shores all alone, but the only reason I did so was to find new friends, and friends I made. I didn't mention anything like that on my PR application. I also worked for a large local company, so all my best friends became and still are local. This all led me to a more natural assimilation into Singapore as opposed to an artificial self-serving one. I suspect Sundaymorningstaple was the same when he arrived on these shores and started putting it about a bit in those days :-) :-) :-)


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