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Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby belladonna » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 6:42 pm

Hi everyone,

I am a British/Filipino dual national and I've been living and working in Singapore for the last 8 years. I have always used my Philippine passport for ease of travel in Southeast Asia, and have also used it to enter and work in Singapore.

I would like to apply for PR, and some friends have said that I should use my British passport. I am worried that this may just complicate matters. I'm not sure if it's advisable, but I am trying to find out more about whether this is possible. Any input or experience would be extremely helpful. Would anyone recommend that I enquire with ICA about this? Or should I keep things consistent and simple and just apply with my Philippine passport?

Thanks!

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby ricedoll » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 9:22 pm

You have 2 passports already and now applying for PR.
Might come off as playing the system.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 9:38 pm

ricedoll wrote:You have 2 passports already and now applying for PR.
Might come off as playing the system.


Not really. Just means she had parents who were from different countries. I would assume she got citizenship for both a birth. I reckon it could be easier, approval wise except she will have a problem as it's her Philippine self who has qualified by being here on a work pass and not her British self. She might find it throws a spanner in the works. I really don't have an answer. Maybe Strong Eagle does as he held 3 passports and was a PR here.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby ricedoll » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 9:41 pm

Strong Eagle? Which 3 passports and how did he get his SG PR?
I didn't lure around this forum too long, please share! :)

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 9:44 pm

I'll let him reveal all if he is willing/able.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby belladonna » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 9:59 pm

Thanks for the input ricedoll and sundaymorningstaple. I do indeed hold both passports by birth, and both countries recognize dual citizenship. I am rather worried that switching passports in Singapore will indeed "put a spanner in the works," since I am very keen to settle here for good. I am considering the switch because I am a teacher, and I suppose it would make sense to use my "native speaker" passport. However, my Philippine passport has also served me well by allowing me to travel with ease around the region and to visit family in Manila. I just don't know whether ICA will take kindly to my holding two nationalities, although I imagine it's all technically aboveboard.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 11:06 pm

As you know, PR is supposed to be a stepping stone to Citizenship. This could also hamper your chances as you would have to give up both your British and Philippines citizenships should you ever decide to take up Singapore Citizenship. The ICA may think that that would be a bit much to ask so they might think twice about PR. I think I'd stick with the Philippine Passport (You may have to reveal your dual citizenship if you haven't already when applying for your work visa.)

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby belladonna » Tue, 23 Feb 2016 11:30 pm

That's a fair point, thanks sundaymorningstaple. It would make sense to apply with my Philippine passport considering all my work experience is registered under that nationality. I hope ICA won't view my dual citizenship as a detriment. Fingers crossed!

(I declared my dual citizenship to my employer way back when I was first hired. It was included in my CV which I assume was submitted to MOM as part of documentation at the time, but I'm not sure if a more official declaration should have been made?)

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 24 Feb 2016 12:02 am

I don't remember all the questions on the PR application as I've not seen one since I've applied for my 25 years ago, so not sure if it asks if you hold any other citizenships/passports from other countries or not. Good Luck at any rate.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 24 Feb 2016 2:26 am

The PR application form doesn't explicitly ask for all the citizenships the applicant holds. However, it asks some questions that can easily help ICA reach reasonable conclusions. As examples, it asks the nationalities of the applicant's parents and siblings, and it also asks whether the applicant has ever entered Singapore under a different passport.

I expect that ICA will figure out what citizenships the applicant holds. In my view it's best if the applicant volunteers that information up front rather than giving ICA the opportunity to be surprised. Opinions might differ of course, but I know that I don't like surprises when I get a job application (for example). Up front truthfulness counts for a lot with me, and I tend to think ICA generally feels the same way.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 24 Feb 2016 2:29 am

ricedoll wrote:Strong Eagle? Which 3 passports and how did he get his SG PR?
I didn't lure around this forum too long, please share! :)


I have three citizenships and hence, three passports. USA by naturalization. Canada by birth. UK citizen by right of descent. I applied for PR immediately after renewing my first EP for two more years. In applying for PR, I had been running a business for two years that was successful. My PR application was first rejected. I then appealed with my company's books, the number of people I had hired, the number of Singapore companies I was using for services, and the amount of money I had in Singapore banks. My PR was approved about a week later, along with that of my wife.

I used my USA passport for the purposes of obtaining PR because it is the one I travel on most frequently. You should really choose the passport that you use most frequently. Reason: If you are returning to a country that is not the same as your passport nationality, then you usually must have proof that you have the right of return without a two way ticket. Example: Pretty common in Hong Kong to have to show proof of residence in Singapore in order to get a seat assigned and to board. So, having a PR stamp (now printed form) in my USA passport ensures that I have no difficulty in returning to Singapore.

For fun, I tried using my UK passport to travel to and from JB to play a round of golf one weekend. Malaysian immigration indicated that they could not use the passport because it didn't have my REP in it, thus, officially, I had no legal entitlement to enter Singapore.

Unlike an employment pass, which can be associated with one and only one passport, ICA will permit you to have a REP in more than one passport. For example, I wanted to travel to Europe on my UK passport to take advantage of citizen processing at immigration points. It requires a visit to ICA to get the second passport registered and a REP printed but otherwise is part of available ICA services. This can be done by you as well (unless something has changed in the last 5 years or so).

As I recall, there is nothing on the PR application form that asks about dual citizenship, only where you have lived and worked, so you should simply choose which passport will work for you. BTW, you cannot hold both passports "by birth" since you could not have been born in both countries. One of your citizenships has to be by right of descent... not that it makes any difference in your actual citizenship.

Two conclusions can be drawn from this. First, you can have your REP in more than one passport if that's what you need for travel. And second, I don't think dual nationality makes any difference, given that ICA is prepared to deal with it.

I don't know that any one passport would make more of a difference or not, and, I think using your UK passport would be detrimental, if it did make a difference. Here's why: I've seen quite a few posts on this forum where PR has been denied to people of various European nations, even with a good salary. I've got no evidence, and my sense is that ICA is beginning to associate nationalities against number of PR's that are relinquished, and are finding that more Europeans get PR and then leave, then, say, Malaysians. It would also be my guess that Indians face the same dilemma. So, ICA solves a couple of problems when it denies Europeans PR. It reduces total PR's issued which makes the local yokels happy, and it improves the overall PR stats of those who stay and/or move onto citizenship.

This view has to be balance against the perceived bias against PR for Filipinos as described in quite a few posts in this forum. It would be worth asking the question in general to get as many views as possible before making the passport decision.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 24 Feb 2016 3:05 am

BBCWatcher wrote:I expect that ICA will figure out what citizenships the applicant holds. In my view it's best if the applicant volunteers that information up front rather than giving ICA the opportunity to be surprised.


I disagree with this assessment. First, if ICA actually cared if you hold more than one passport, there would be room on the form, titled, "If you hold more than one passport, list the country, passport number, and expiry date below". But, they don't.

Second, figuring out what citizenship a person has may be easy in some cases, not so easy in others. I put my place of birth as Canada. Canada recognizes dual citizenship. Canada does not recognize the renunciation of citizenship during the formal USA citizenship oath process. Like Singapore, if you actually want to renounce citizenship, you have to visit a consular official in person, with a written document, and swear that you are dropping your Canadian citizenship. But even then, you can reapply to get it back.

Consider this scenario. I never get a Canadian passport. I actually did not get one until shortly before I moved to Singapore. When we moved to the USA I was a minor and carried in my mother's Canadian passport. How would they guess my citizenship? I am a citizen without doing anything but I could have renounced my citizenship when I became an American citizen.

Or, I noted my father's birthplace as Liverpool, England. That would have made him a British Subject. But in 1947, Canada passed an act that turned my father into a Canadian citizen. Then, I believe it was in 1983 (I'm fuzzy) that legislation was passed in the UK that created all sorts of "citizenships", and which gave citizens of Commonwealth countries British Citizenship with right of abode, as well as first generation born out of the UK. Would my father be a Canadian or a British Citizen or both?

Or, consider my daughter. She was born in the USA and thus, is American. But, she is a Canadian citizen by right of descent, although she has never applied for a Canadian passport or certificate of citizenship. But, that doesn't matter. She is still a citizen of both countries. How would ICA figure that out?

And why would they care? My sense is that ICA probably keeps lists of "desirable" nationalities, "OK" nationalities, and "not so desirable" nationalities. If I'm applying for PR and my passport is issued in Kazakhstan, I probably have an uphill climb. But if I somehow have a USA passport but all the rest of my information is the same, including my birth place, two things happen. a) My chances of getting my application looked at are better, and b) If they want to know more about my circumstances, they will contact me.

In summary, I can see no point in listing two or more nationalities. As I said in my other post, use the passport that works best for you. Passports are dependent upon citizenships but citizenships are not dependent upon passports.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 24 Feb 2016 10:59 am

Strong Eagle wrote:How would they guess my citizenship?

ICA would assume, correctly, that you are a Canadian citizen since you were born there. And you're not U.S. Senator Ted Cruz.

She is still a citizen of both countries. How would ICA figure that out?

ICA is at least reasonably familiar with the citizenship laws of at least major countries and would draw reasonable conclusions.

ICA also has a lot of other information available to draw reasonable conclusions.

And why would they care?

I don't think ICA would. But that's an argument in favor of disclosing information, information (as it happens) ICA already knows or can reasonably infer.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:12 am

^^^^^^
Whatever.

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Re: Apply for PR with different passport? (Dual national)

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:57 am

BBCWatcher wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:How would they guess my citizenship?

ICA would assume, correctly, that you are a Canadian citizen since you were born there. And you're not U.S. Senator Ted Cruz.



Asia + Assume ? I gotta get brain scanned - to check if I still have a brain inside my head :D

Assumption is not a word that is used commonly - if in doubt - reject is the norm in Govt Agencies.

I can quote a dozen plus examples of simple 1+1=2 were not 'assumed so.

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