Singapore Expats Forum

Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Lukus95
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 18 Nov 2008

Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby Lukus95 » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 4:35 pm

My wife and I recently had our PR application approved (in principle). My wife is the main applicant and upon reading the approval letter I realised only the main applicant is exempt from NS and I may be liable for full time national service. I had incorrectly assumed first generation PR's didn't need to serve NS.

I am almost 32 and I'm currently on an EP and working here in Singapore. Full time NS at this point in my life would obviously be a rather major disruption personally and professionally. Wondering if anyone has gone through this process and how it turned out? Or if anyone has any idea what criteria is applied to determine if I would need to serve full time NS?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Last edited by Lukus95 on Sat, 13 Feb 2016 7:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 4:59 pm

Lukus95 wrote:My wife and I recently had our PR application approved (in principle). My wife is the main applicant and upon reading the approval letter I realised only the main applicant is exempt from NS and I may be liable for full time national service. I had assumed first generation PR's didn't need to serve NS. Obviously feeling rather foolish at overlooking such a thing now.

I am almost 32 and I'm currently on an EP and working here in Singapore. I'm completely stressed about the fact that I may be liable for full time service. Full time NS at this point in my life would obviously be a rather major disruption personally and professionally. Wondering if anyone has gone through this process and how it turned out? Or if anyone has any idea what criteria is applied to determine if I would need to serve full time NS?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.


You can give up your PR since you are feeling foolish and stressed. And give the slot to somebody else dying to be a PR here

Or read up on past posts here and know that as 1sr generation adult PR you don't get called, unless you were born in Singapore and left long long ago.

Children of 1st Generation PR do get called for NS.

Seriously, are you so stressed ? Hmmmm. Take a tramadol and see how it goes. :)

Lukus95
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 18 Nov 2008

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby Lukus95 » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 8:23 pm

Just to clarify. I feel extremely fortunate to have had our PR application approved. Feeling foolish is more about the fact that we could have swapped the primary applicant had I made myself aware of the NS liability.
Anyway, thanks for the reply. After reviewing previous posts as suggested it seems the likelihood is rather slim for someone of my age.

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5764
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby PNGMK » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 8:31 pm

You almost certainly get a waiver. I did at younger age in similar circumstances.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 8:43 pm

I can put in a good word for you at CMPB if you're that keen to do NS. After all, if they could find me a way to get back to 32 again, I'd be more than happy to do two years NS! In fact, I'd give up a eye-tooth even. ;-)

Anyway, the military is a character builder. It made me into a real character as some here can attest to. Of course, when I was in the military they were shooting at me with real bullets & RPGs, so it might be a little different.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 9:20 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Anyway, the military is a character builder. It made me into a real character as some here can attest to. Of course, when I was in the military they were shooting at me with real bullets & RPGs, so it might be a little different.


Now its laser tags and artillery simulators, most of the real stuff is fired overseas .. especially those self propelled guns.

BBCWatcher
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun, 13 Sep 2015

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby BBCWatcher » Sun, 14 Feb 2016 9:03 am

There is one new obligation (from November 1, 2015): you need to start paying MediShield Life premiums (taxes) as a PR. For the whole household. It doesn't matter whether you already have medical insurance or not. MediShield Life premiums can be paid from your Medisave account balance, but whether you have Medisave funds or not you're liable. You don't have a Medisave account yet. You and your employer have to start contributing to CPF, so you'll start to build up a Medisave account (and savings account). CPF contributions reduce your immediate take home pay, especially once you reach the 25th month after becoming a PR. They have some local tax advantages. Occasionally they can have some odd (negative) effects in international tax terms, for U.S. citizens or for those who end up retiring outside Singapore to any of several countries, in particular.

As a PR if you have a current or future son he will become liable for national service.

The government is free to impose additional obligations (and/or adjust benefits) at any point in time, as it just did with MediShield Life. Tomorrow's PR might be different than today's.

Employers often try to (and succeed in) changing the terms of employment when an employee acquires PR status, particularly if you're currently on an international assignment or leave of absence from another country. Examples include reducing salary, skipping cost of living adjustments, ending educational assistance for the employee's children, ending relocation assistance, switching from international medical insurance to (typically less generous) local medical insurance, ending foreign disability insurance coverage, freezing foreign pension program contributions, changing/ending previous severance and unemployment insurance, etc. In short, PRs are "local," with all that means.

Have you fully investigated the obligations associated with PR status? One would hope you would have done that before applying, but "better late than never." I'm providing a summary of the highlights only.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Feb 2016 2:44 pm

If I were applying for PR today instead of when I did a quarter of a century ago, I wouldn't bother today.

In fact, I'd get as far away from PR as possible as the negatives more than outweigh the positives any more. Of course that's up to debate, but as one who has been a PR that longfor a very long time, vrs what it feels like today and what PR gives you today, It's no longer the brass ring in a jousting contest. It's only real benefit is the fact that you are not ties to a single employer or going to a SVP if unemployed or making a minimum sum like when on a PEP. However, the perks the employers take away AND the constant halving of subsidies (or greater) for PR's is a good reason to NOT take it up. Sure, you can avoid the higher ABSD, but your property isn't going to appreciate like it would have done 15 years ago. As BBC says, they can take more away any damned time they feel like it, and your only recourse, if you don't like it, is to pack up and not let the door hit you in the arse at Changi airport on the way out.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 14 Feb 2016 5:37 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:There is one new obligation (from November 1, 2015): you need to start paying MediShield Life premiums (taxes) as a PR.


Bit out of topic, but are you JR8 reincarnated ? :D :D

Your information sharing is pretty useful, by the way ..

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5764
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 14 Feb 2016 7:58 pm

I tend to agree SMS. After this stint I'm very tempted to cash it in. However, oddly enough, one of our mutual mates Frank Vespa was in town to cash in his PR/CPF at the age of 67!. He had hung onto his CPF and PR purely because it could never be touched by a court (i.e. bankruptcy) outside Singapore and guaranteed him capital and a bolt hole in case it went south back in the states. I thought that was pretty astute of him.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

BBCWatcher
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun, 13 Sep 2015

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby BBCWatcher » Sun, 14 Feb 2016 9:32 pm

PNGMK wrote:I thought that was pretty astute of him.

More astute would be not going bankrupt. ;)

I don't quite follow the logic, though. My understanding is that there's no requirement to withdraw CPF funds upon termination of PR status. I assume he kept his PR status (as a separate matter) simply because, up until November 1, 2015, there was little or no cost to do so, not for bankruptcy-related reasons. Presumably the start of MediShield Life premiums encouraged him to terminate a status he wasn't likely to use, but he's not required to withdraw his CPF funds.

Bankruptcy protection is not unique to CPF funds, by the way.

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5764
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 14 Feb 2016 9:56 pm

No he wouldn't care about medishield. He most likely left his funds in CPF as they were somewhat remote and unknown to his business partners etc back in the states... he ran in a rough crowd.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby JR8 » Sun, 14 Feb 2016 11:08 pm

ecureilx wrote:Bit out of topic, but are you JR8 reincarnated ? :D :D
Your information sharing is pretty useful, by the way ..


:o You know the only facet of visas/residency I know pretty well is the LTVP.
Agreed BBCW is adding solid current knowledge... so, good stuff.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 12:22 am

PNGMK wrote:No he wouldn't care about medishield. He most likely left his funds in CPF as they were somewhat remote and unknown to his business partners etc back in the states... he ran in a rough crowd.


Yep. He ran in a rather rough crowd here as well. ;-)

But yeah, you don't need to withdraw your CPF if you give up your PR. In fact, my best mate, a Kiwi worked here back in the back in the late 80's/early '90's (when I first met him) on the Mobile refinery upgrade by Asia Badger. Back in those days CPF was a 20%:20% proposition (and EPs also had to contribute so the EPC contract engineers where socking it away) most withdrew after their contracts ended but Bob didn't and worked all over Indo & M'sai until around 8 years ago when he grabbed a long term contract here again, bought a condo here and gotten married the wife had 3 baby boys in succession (actually the succession was only minutes apart - triplets!) Contract ended and he's been in Indo for the past three 3 years now on a contract over there. PR was lost (wife was Indo and family lived not far from the Tuban Refinery where he was initially working). However it was pretty easy when he applied for PR as the CPF was contributed back in the 90's and with that still in situ, it didn't take too much for him to get his PR. Will be interesting if he comes back to Singapore where he owns a condo and wants to apply for PR again. (His CPF is still there).

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11110
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: Advice Needed: NS liability for new PR

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 4:18 am

I'm in the process of renouncing my PR and REP so that I can withdraw my CPF. I had six years of contributions at the max, so you can figure out how much I socked away. But, with New Medisave mandatory charges plus the ever weakening SD dollar against the US dollar, 4 percent isn't enough to stay even.

I thoroughly agree with SMS' comments about PR... it aint what it used to be. The _only_ real benefit it provides these days is that you won't immediately be run out of the country if you lose your jobs and can't find another one.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests