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Salary Details Publicised

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martincymru
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Salary Details Publicised

Postby martincymru » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:13 am

I was instructed by HR to " keep salary details to yourself ".

Any thoughts on this ?

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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:42 am

You're being paid more than the others. Actually my contract for my last few jobs has usually had a clause about pay confidentiality.
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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby bgd » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:51 am

If salary details are confidential it allows the company to pay staff at different rates, even for the same job / skill level.

They encourage the same at my firm, however different cultures are a little more 'sharing' so some groups are aware of the 'going rate' which can make for some interesting discussions in year end reviews.

Years back a friend was finishing at a company and came across a spreadsheet which listed all the contractor rates. There were some big discrepancies so, as a parting gift, he passed it on to the contractor population. It was an interesting few weeks by all accounts.

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Re: RE: Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 8:18 pm

bgd wrote:Years back a friend was finishing at a company and came across a spreadsheet which listed all the contractor rates. There were some big discrepancies so, as a parting gift, he passed it on to the contractor population. It was an interesting few weeks by all accounts.


In a recent past job, a manager found out that his direct report was earning twice as the manager. Thanks to beer overload.

And the manager confronted his boss and HR.

End result, manager and his subordinate got terminated for breach of confidentiality...

Welcome to Singapore.

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Re: RE: Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby x9200 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:09 pm

ecureilx wrote:
bgd wrote:Years back a friend was finishing at a company and came across a spreadsheet which listed all the contractor rates. There were some big discrepancies so, as a parting gift, he passed it on to the contractor population. It was an interesting few weeks by all accounts.


In a recent past job, a manager found out that his direct report was earning twice as the manager. Thanks to beer overload.

And the manager confronted his boss and HR.

End result, manager and his subordinate got terminated for breach of confidentiality...

Welcome to Singapore.


And they humbly accepted the faith? How the company could have proven which of the two had breached the agreement?
(nice one Ecu)

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:39 pm

x9200 wrote:And they humbly accepted the faith? How the company could have proven which of the two had breached the agreement?
(nice one Ecu)


I can't remember a case where an employee sued his employer and won. In Singapore.....

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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby x9200 » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 4:45 am

Probably they never visited a lawyer. I am very sure it is possible and must happen on regular basis.

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Re: RE: Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 2:34 pm

x9200 wrote:And they humbly accepted the faith? How the company could have proven which of the two had breached the agreement?
(nice one Ecu)


And you can do what ? Sue to be re employed ? That job won't last long if the company has very good HR folks.

Compensation? Are you kidding? You may win a month or 2 worth compensation if you win the case.

And courts here don't like to see silly cases. Unlike in the west.

The fastest case I witnessed was for a defamation case, the complainant went in fully prepared with his top $ lawyer. Judge spent 15 minutes reading the case and didn't give any chance for the two lawyers to speak.

The order was "defendant pay the complainant 3k, case dismissed."

The complainant's lawyer asked for legal costs from defendant and the judge went like "take it off the 3k, and don't waste our time".

Case won and the winner paid the lawyer 12k, of, minus 3k, so 9k spent to show he won+bragging rights.

PNGMK can affirm how efficiently cases get thrown out in Singapore.

And unlike in other countries, few cases drag on, and fewer cases get stuck in legal queue.

x9200 wrote:Probably they never visited a lawyer. I am very sure it is possible and must happen on regular basis.


Probably SMS can advise what's chance of employees winning against employers, in Singapore's context. :) and for such breach of confidentiality cases.

Do Employee-enployer disputes ending up in court happen on a Regular basis ? Not so in Singapore. And When it happens it is normally in the news.

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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 3:00 pm

Most employee-employer cases are now heard before a judge at the MOM court. 3rd floor is full of court rooms. If it cannot be settled there, only then is it advised to go before a civil court.

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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby x9200 » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 4:38 pm

Ecu, I had some opportunity to discuss different employment related legal issues with some established lawyers (does Lee&Lee tell you something?) at the time my wife had some problems with her employer. And you know what? You would be very surprised. I was actually too. What I am typically writing on this forum for any legal issue discussed is much restrictive to what is the reality. You are uber uber restrictive in your opinions and I think this is your problem and the problem of your environment - you just don't believe you can do something because somebody who you knew or heard about, was equally disbelieving and failed.
As you know I am around for some years already and every time I had to resort to do something over a legal line it is always my way despite all the pessimistic opinions I typically read from you and some other people on this forum. Maybe I am lucky, but I had it my way also in some conflict situations where the counterpart was actually a local lawyer.

Getting back to my wife, ask me when we have opportunity to talk over some beer. I will tell you the story. Pretty funny. The company actually lost few thousand dollars just to avoid terminating her early and later she also didn't adhere to some of the post-contract restrictions, all for good.

PS. See what SMS wrote? There is even a special procedure to help to mediate in such cases. If this is so hopeless why MoM would be bothered?

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Re: RE: Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 4:52 pm

x9200 wrote:Getting back to my wife, ask me when we have opportunity to talk over some beer. I will tell you the story. Pretty funny. The company actually lost few thousand dollars just to avoid terminating her early and later she also didn't adhere to some of the post-contract restrictions, all for good.


I am not being pessimistic here but probably the contract saved your day. Didn't work in most cases I saw and experienced.

Let's hear your experience at the next beer O Clock.

My estimate says, specific to anti competitive clauses, 9 out of 10 cases were won by employees, but pretty soon the guys become unemployable as nobody wanted to bear the guys. And few of the guys I know who won cases, are till date insurance or property agents.

Maybe because most of my conflicts experiences has been pretty much in SME sector, my words may sound pessimistic

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Re: RE: Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 4:52 pm

x9200 wrote:Getting back to my wife, ask me when we have opportunity to talk over some beer. I will tell you the story. Pretty funny. The company actually lost few thousand dollars just to avoid terminating her early and later she also didn't adhere to some of the post-contract restrictions, all for good.


I am not being pessimistic here but probably the contract saved your day. Didn't work in most cases I saw and experienced.

Let's hear your experience at the next beer O Clock.

My estimate says, specific to anti competitive clauses, 9 out of 10 cases were won by employees, but pretty soon the guys become unemployable as nobody wanted to bear the guys. And few of the guys I know who won cases, are till date insurance or property agents.

Maybe because most of my conflicts experiences has been pretty much in SME sector, my words may sound pessimistic

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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby x9200 » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 5:21 pm

It will of course depend on the specific case but generally anti-competitive clauses can not be very restrictive. If they are, the collateral damage (for example to the other companies) exceeds benefits of the company demanding the restrictions - in other words, it is not desirable for the industry/society.

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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby JR8 » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 7:00 pm

PNGMK wrote:You're being paid more than the others. Actually my contract for my last few jobs has usually had a clause about pay confidentiality.


Or, they want you to think you might be being paid more but the fact is you're being paid less.

My own experience was that the base salary was generally pretty predictable within a fixed range. Job ads from other companies allowed bench-marking of that. However the annual bonus was wildly variable and derived from several factors, both corporate and personal. There was always huge intrigue at bonus time, 'does the guy coming out of his 1-1 bonus meeting look happy or angry?'. Is the vibe within any one department +ve or +ve? And so on and so on...

But IME no one was somehow contractually disallowed from disclosing their pay [esp bonus], it's just it was so personal and contentious there was precisely nil reason to do so, even with your closest colleagues.
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Re: Salary Details Publicised

Postby PNGMK » Sat, 13 Feb 2016 8:10 pm

Nosey Stinkaporean: Hey you ah, what your bonus? Got increment?

Casual Expat; No freaking clue mate; I don't bother looking at my payslips.

Cue meltdown in Stinkaporean's mind.
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