Singapore Expats Forum

Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.

Sponsored by:
Image
AE Logistics - Movers & Storage

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:55 pm

you can't be serious about better education?
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3788
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Re: RE: Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 20 Mar 2016 1:41 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:you can't be serious about better education?

It depends, on how you look at it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar ... es/471564/

You can argue that the Asian schooling system doesn't encourage critical thinking etc. So it depends on what you are looking for.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk

calugaruvaxile
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun, 08 Feb 2015

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby calugaruvaxile » Mon, 21 Mar 2016 11:37 pm

Wd40 wrote:There are 3 main things that he pointed out:
1) proximity to China
2) better education
3) lower taxes

I think the 3rd point is the most compelling. As a business, probably you can save tons in taxes. You know HSBC considered moving from UK to Hong Kong and that was recent, and then UK govt had to give some tax concessions to keep them in UK. So I guess there is some merit in what he is saying.


Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


1. so what? china is in free fall right now. oh wait ... i recently re-browsed a picture book i had from my days of sg. one chapter was about the brand-new buildings and institutions of educations and culture. you know how the author was describing that? singapore's cultural great leap forward! mmmm, deeeeelicious!
2. dream on! for your information, texan school is seriously more demanding than singaporean school. at least in first grade. oh yea, it requires a LOT of parent support. he he he ... cannot let the child go with tutor and illiterate maid lah!
3. maybe DIRECT taxation is lower. if you add the indirect taxation, plus govt intrusion in your business, it's a loss-loss.

about the gov't intrusion thing: i clearly remember - when i was still in sg - we had a (mandatory, thus annoying) corporate training about the equality of chance. how our company won't promote anyone based on ethnicity, gender and PASSPORT (the usual crap all the big corps are displaying, i guess). the VERY NEXT day, the sg govt launches that mandatory fast-track promotion system for sgporean pmets. by coincidence, i stumble upon the hr's boss and ask her how is the politically correct crap of yesterday going with the sg govt decision of today. the answer? "quite honestly, at this point i don't know". that was a funny moment.

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby nakatago » Tue, 22 Mar 2016 5:20 am

calugaruvaxile wrote:"quite honestly... i don't know".


This is what all enlightened Singaporeans say about anything that their government does.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby JR8 » Tue, 22 Mar 2016 5:27 am

The JPnese when boxed into a corner; forced into the taboo of answering a question in the negative would rub their chins, look painfully uncomfortable, and usually mumble 'Hmmm...hmm... it's hard to say'.

I see very different though similarly taboo matters/x-over...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

BBCWatcher
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun, 13 Sep 2015

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:00 am

Wd40 wrote:1) proximity to China

Isn't that a bit like saying Panama is close to the United States? That seems like a weak argument in favor of Singapore. I agree. It seems like a much stronger argument in favor of Hong Kong, Macau, Taipei, or Seoul, as examples, some of which are actually part of China.

2) better education

Another problem with this argument is that there is no such thing as "U.S. Statistically Average Primary School." In the United States (and in some other countries) your choice of housing determines your public school district and the public schools your children can attend. There are some genuinely terrible public schools, and there are some incredibly outstanding ones. The latter are often located in close-in suburbs near major financial and commercial centers, places like Westchester County, New York, and Belmont, Massachusetts (to pick a couple examples). Also, cities like New York and Chicago have competitive admission public schools. (The highest rated public high school in Illinois, and one of the best in the U.S., is located in the city of Chicago.) These are world class public schools, with big pipelines to universities such as Harvard. Of course you get what you pay for to a great extent. Housing costs and property taxes in areas with excellent public schools tend to be high. But there are some genuine bargains, too. I'd put Minneapolis area public school districts in the "value for money" category, for example.

You might have to move to find "better education," but you don't have to move halfway around the world.

3) lower taxes

"So what?"

Taxes fund government services. It's just that simple. So if the taxes are lower, there are fewer government services, other things being equal. Less of that "better education," for example. There's also less government investment in things like transport infrastructure, investments that generate lots of wealth and income.

It's really not the taxes that matter. It's the wealth and income, the "top line," and the lifestyle. Even rich people like public safety, clean air, safe drinking water, fair and efficient courts, infectious disease prevention, and so on. There are many, many lovely countries, and places within those countries, to live, and they vary in their tax rates and policies. ("So what?") As it happens, Singapore has rather high (or at least moderate) tax rates on income from work, especially when considering social insurance contributions (CPF). The tax rates are about to increase, too. It has low (zero mostly) taxes on passive income. Which is not likely to persist, in my view, but we'll see.

It continues to amaze me how cheap -- and in a very unsophisticated way -- many rich people are. ;) It wasn't all that long ago that it was considered gauche and rude among rich elites to complain about taxes, at least in public. I don't think the Kennedys ever complained about taxes. It was more "Downton Abbey" just a few decades ago, with rich folks accepting and even embracing societal responsibilities and duties, still while enjoying fabulous lifestyles. It was much less "me me me," wasn't it? Perhaps the difference was that rich elites back then faced existential threats like communist revolutions, abolition of monarchies and noble titles, and Naziism.

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Re: RE: Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:09 am

Wd40 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:you can't be serious about better education?

It depends, on how you look at it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar ... es/471564/

You can argue that the Asian schooling system doesn't encourage critical thinking etc. So it depends on what you are looking for.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


and American education is the only form of education in the world? what about europe? or canada or Australia? their education systems don't count ? :roll:
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3788
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Wd40 » Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:12 am

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:you can't be serious about better education?

It depends, on how you look at it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar ... es/471564/

You can argue that the Asian schooling system doesn't encourage critical thinking etc. So it depends on what you are looking for.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


and American education is the only form of education in the world? what about europe? or canada or Australia? their education systems don't count ? :roll:

You seemed to have agreed that American education is inferior, by asking that question, lol. Let's go one at a time. Did you agree with that article or not?

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:06 pm

Wd40 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:It depends, on how you look at it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar ... es/471564/

You can argue that the Asian schooling system doesn't encourage critical thinking etc. So it depends on what you are looking for.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


and American education is the only form of education in the world? what about europe? or canada or Australia? their education systems don't count ? :roll:

You seemed to have agreed that American education is inferior, by asking that question, lol. Let's go one at a time. Did you agree with that article or not?

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

calugaruvaxile
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun, 08 Feb 2015

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby calugaruvaxile » Wed, 23 Mar 2016 12:25 am

nakatago wrote:
calugaruvaxile wrote:"quite honestly... i don't know".


This is what all enlightened Singaporeans say about anything that their government does.


ah no, that was a french national who was left off side by the genius sg gov't move :D

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby nakatago » Wed, 23 Mar 2016 5:33 am

calugaruvaxile wrote:
nakatago wrote:
calugaruvaxile wrote:"quite honestly... i don't know".


This is what all enlightened Singaporeans say about anything that their government does.


ah no, that was a french national who was left off side by the genius sg gov't move :D


I've had a Singaporean company president say that out loud while I was present so in an informal setting so...

calugaruvaxile
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun, 08 Feb 2015

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby calugaruvaxile » Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:56 pm

nakatago wrote:
I've had a Singaporean company president say that out loud while I was present so in an informal setting so...


i quite honestly can't blame the guy. the chance that tomorrow morning you hear that the sg gov't took an extremely exotic decision, even opposite to yesterday's decision, is about 50%

User avatar
Aragorn2000
Regular
Regular
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun, 30 Dec 2012

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Aragorn2000 » Thu, 24 Mar 2016 9:09 am

From my observation and my own interpretation of that observation, a random kid from a middle class family in OECD countries (including Japan) tends to be more well-adjusted compared to an sg's counterpart.
Kids here are a bit off. They are much more prejudiced, too shy or too self-confident as if trying to compensate for some hidden inner insecurities. Sg's better education is debatable (maybe better in high school level maths, just maybe), but understanding of civil liberties and just being relaxed are much more important to lead a happy life.

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 24 Mar 2016 9:31 am

if education is just about studies and subjects then ok... its not just about being brainy alone.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
Aragorn2000
Regular
Regular
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun, 30 Dec 2012

Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Aragorn2000 » Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:05 am

One of the comments from an Indian in The Atlantic's article (Wd40 posted above):

Fred Gavin wrote:1. I don't think you'd find this true about education of South Asians, at least among the upper quartile.

2. I've often wondered whether the rote nature of education is one reason why East Asians, or at least the Japanese, have not typically excelled at software development at the highest levels."


I keep wondering why so many Indians have this attitude?
The Japanese are towering above almost every one else in terms of high tech, futuristic stuff. I wouldn't dare saying what he said to any Japanese.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Staying, Living in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests