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Everyone I know is leaving or already left

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Brah
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Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Brah » Thu, 11 Feb 2016 8:34 pm

Am just taking the pulse here to see if others see this as well.

Nothing new, has been coming for a long time, but it has certainly accelerated.
Ape Shall Not Kill Ape.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 11 Feb 2016 9:05 pm

After 33 years here, I can tell you, it's cyclic.

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Brah
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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Brah » Thu, 11 Feb 2016 9:20 pm

Well then this place in in the downward direction of a 10-12-year cycle
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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 11 Feb 2016 10:16 pm

Of that, there is no doubt. But I've weathered them before. I ain't a quitter! ;-) lol

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby JR8 » Thu, 11 Feb 2016 10:37 pm

Just for the record, as one data point, we didn't leave because we chose to as such, it was just that the time to get posted out again came up. We might return to SG once more, but that decision will x-over with the option of taking early retirement back to London (after c12 years away at the end of this posting).... so we'll see.

Now if they were to x-post us to somewhere top-notch, like NYC, then all bets are off for agreeing to one last hurrah :)
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Brah
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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Brah » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 2:02 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Of that, there is no doubt. But I've weathered them before. I ain't a quitter! ;-) lol

It has nothing to do with quitting. If I was smarter than I am I would have left long ago.
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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 5:04 am

The real danger for expats these days is for those who are not on PR. When the economy is robust and there are normal rounds of hiring and retrenchment, 30 days seems OK.

But when entire industries downsize or offshore, three things happen, all bad. There's a flood of EP's, all looking for work. There's a lack of jobs because they've all left Singapore. And all of a sudden, 30 days becomes a death sentence for future residency in Singapore.

There is no security anymore.

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:03 am

Strong Eagle wrote:The real danger for expats these days is for those who are not on PR.

A PEP also works pretty well, especially if well timed.

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby bgd » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:28 am

BBCWatcher wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:The real danger for expats these days is for those who are not on PR.

A PEP also works pretty well, especially if well timed.


Agreed, but it's one shot. Mine expires next year. :wink:

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby martincymru » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:18 am

Housing is the main issue.

If you are a western expat, will share a room and accept 3k salary then lots of jobs here. Otherwise (and I guess most of you are "otherwise") it's tough unless you have skill an Asian cannot do.

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:42 am

mine's been renewed as we speak, i expect no dramas though.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 2:28 pm

bgd wrote:Agreed, but it's one shot.

True, but if living in Singapore means coping with multiple, frequent bouts of extended unemployment then maybe it's time to shove off and move out anyway. PR status only gives you the option to suffer multiple, frequent income losses, not the obligation. ;)

Metaphorically speaking, if you live in Syria or Yemen (as examples) then one bomb landing in your backyard you might consider a fluke, but the second one the day after ought to be treated as a commandment. :)

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 3:14 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:But when entire industries downsize or offshore, three things happen, all bad.

I agree with you, but while it's bad for foreign workers it's working exactly as the government wants for resident workers. The foreign workers are supposed to be the "gap fillers," the "swing" workforce -- the temporary hired help. If they bear the brunt of economic downturns then resident workers will bear much less. Moreover, any economic downturns will occur within the context of a government that is trying to slow down population growth, amplifying the impacts. There is some "good" in that for remaining foreign workers looking to become resident workers. The fewer EPs applying for PR, the greater the chance each applicant has of approval assuming that the annual PR quota is static. (It certainly seems to be.) As a metaphor, when the dinosaurs died out the little proto-rodents hung on (and dined on dinosaur carcasses, probably), thrived, and eventually evolved to become humans. If you're one of the survivors you can do well.

For what it's worth, my anecdotal evidence adds up to "stability," for now. Maybe my professional circle(s) are doing better than average. That said, it's obvious there are some industries that are not doing well, notably O&G (oil and gas). But the transportation sector, especially the airlines, do quite well when energy prices are low, and there is some evidence that's true in Singapore, too.

I would caution that you will inevitably see lots of people leaving if you're one of the "survivors," even in comparatively good economic conditions. All people leave eventually since all people are mortal. (Well, at least I've never met anybody who credibly claims otherwise.) So when you get old, either in residence or age terms, you naturally notice lots of people around you dropping out and dying off. It's just how it goes, and it's "survivor's observational bias."

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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 3:18 pm

I would caution that you will inevitably see lots of people leaving if you're one of the "survivors," even in comparatively good economic conditions. All people leave eventually if for no other reason that all people are mortal.

Truer words.
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Re: Everyone I know is leaving or already left

Postby Addadude » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 5:33 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:All people leave eventually since all people are mortal. (Well, at least I've never met anybody who credibly claims otherwise.)


I dunno. I'm beginning to think SMS is Lazarus Man.
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."


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