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Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby Hidy Ho » Tue, 02 Feb 2016 2:53 pm

Very thick

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 02 Feb 2016 2:59 pm

He doesn't seem to understand that at least two of us moderators on this thread are PR and have been through the whole process. With his lack of reading comprehension, I doubt very seriously whether he'll every have to worry about it.

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby mystic_river » Tue, 02 Feb 2016 3:27 pm

OP, not going to bother convincing you that SG PR is not an entry permit.

But I presume your reason for asking this is what to answer when you are asked the 3 questions as per your OP. Just answer no for all of them.

If your PR application is rejected, it's your PR status that has been rejected, not the re entry permit. And you can't get the re entry permit unless you are a PR. Comprende?

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 03 Feb 2016 6:26 am

If I understand the question correctly, this is a (highly legalistic) question about how to answer some other country's/countries' visa application form(s) truthfully. Those forms typically ask whether you've been denied a visa to visit any other country.

It's very difficult to generalize. How to answer that other country's visa application questions truthfully will depend on the exact wording of the questions. If a question asks, "Have you ever been denied permanent residency?" and you have been denied permanent residency in Singapore (or elsewhere), then the only truthful answer to that question is yes, and you would answer yes. If the question asks about whether you have been denied a visa, I agree with other posters that a Singapore PR application rejection is not a visa rejection. You're still living in Singapore on an Employment Pass with a re-entry permit, presumably, so you already hold permission to enter Singapore. I don't see how you could claim to be rejected for something you already have and continue to have -- that part doesn't change.

Yes, the PR application form says you're applying for an Entry Permit (also). I suppose if you're applying for PR from overseas, are denied PR, and also don't get an LTVP approval then you were denied a visa to Singapore -- I think that's a fair interpretation of the facts and you'd answer other countries' questions accordingly. But I think you have to assume a "have you ever been denied a visa?" question relates to an actual outcome in terms of visa/entry. If you're granted (or continue to hold) entry permit type B (associated with an EP, LTVP, etc.) and just weren't granted entry permit type A (associated with PR), that's not a visa rejection as I see it (and as others see it). You were approved (or continued to be approved) for a visa (entry permit) for that country.

As another example, let's suppose you applied for a one year visa to visit Mongolia, but Mongolia only granted you a 90 day visa. Were you denied a visa? I'd say no. You were granted a visa, just not the precise visa you would have preferred -- you got a shorter term one. That's not a rejection or denial as I see it, and that's the same as PR v. EP/DP/LTVP.

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:58 am

Yes, agree with BBC. The OP is being borderline pedantic on the definition of each individual word. I mean, what if you were turned down for a Visa credit card? Then what?

(travel) visa apps are evaluated holistically, and I highly doubt your answer to that one question will make or break the rest of the app. If you're that concerned, just answer "no" you haven't (as is the conventional wisdom of this thread). If by some bizarre chance they catch you on this, explain what we've told you. You had the visa, and PR is something more.

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:26 pm

BBC,

Yes, the PR application form says you're applying for an Entry Permit (also). I suppose if you're applying for PR from overseas, are denied PR, and also don't get an LTVP approval then you were denied a visa to Singapore -- I think that's a fair interpretation of the facts and you'd answer other countries' questions accordingly.


Receiving the Re-Entry Permit is contingent on getting Permanent Residence. Your application for the REP is not submited until such time as PR has been approved. If you don't get the PR, the REP is not applied for, so no, he's still has never been rejected for a visa as the application cannot be filed until such time as the 'qualifying' PR has been granted. It's the same as going to the online self-assessment tool and filling it out and finding that you don't qualify for an EP pass. You haven't been rejected, but you don't meet the application criteria. One of the criteria of getting a Re-entry permit, is having PR. So he's not been rejected, as he doesn't qualify to apply for one.

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby x9200 » Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:33 pm

Besides, the spirit of such questions under the visa application is to determine whether the applicant was for some reason found to be persona non grata in a country s/he tried to enter. This is typically associated with different risks including illegal employment, lack of funds, likelihood to overstay or to commit an offence. The PR application while examines some of the aspects (i.e. criminal records) is mostly concerned whether the person is desirable to stay permanently in Singapore with some extra privileges granted. These include a different set of factors (employability, society value added etc). One can be found not desirable to be granted a PR but still highly desirable to visit SG as a tourist or find here an employment. For that reason PR application is simply not suitable to indicate risks associated with granting a short term visa.

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 03 Feb 2016 2:19 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Receiving the Re-Entry Permit is contingent on getting Permanent Residence.

I agree. The point I was trying to make is that, in my view, you have to do at least something more than apply for PR in order to be "denied a visa," and the government has to do something more than deny a PR application. If you apply for every reasonable option to get into Singapore (including an LTVP) and are denied on all fronts, I think a reasonable argument could be made that you were "denied a visa" and should answer accordingly. That said, it's hard to generalize. I'd have to see the exact question asked.

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby sgstrait » Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:33 am

The application for REP is executed only after PR is approved. Therefore, if you were not approved for PR, then you never actually applied for a REP.

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:56 am

Damn, we got a lot of parrots in here!

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 07 Feb 2016 1:29 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Damn, we got a lot of parrots in here!


Everyone is repeating each other! :cool:

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Re: Rejected PR, is it a deny of entry/visa/permit?

Postby sgstrait » Sun, 07 Feb 2016 1:40 pm

Everyone keeps repeating the same thing

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