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Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

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earthfriendly
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:38 am

May I ask how much is your premium? Just doing hypothetical math here. If a person pays $800 (I have no idea what is the average, just hypothetical) yearly premium and runs up a bill for $5500. That would take about 8 years to even come close to breakeven. This is over simplistic but you get where I am going.

We are now on high deductible plan. Although, I think we are entitled to a free annual checkup/wellness visit (which actually helps to keep cost down if issues are caught earlier and it encourages prevention). Deductible for a our family of four is USD5,000 (or maybe 6K???). Insurance will not kick in unless we have expended this $5k ourselves. Many companies are going this route. Just so they can still afford to offer health insurance to its employees. And I will only foresee the deductible to go up, and not down.

I see this as the way to go. High deductible actually encourages people to be more judicious about using the system. Be sensible about it so there is more to spread around for more people to enjoy.

earthfriendly
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:51 am

I understand people buy insurance for different reasons. Singaporeans, including my sisters, like to buy those kind that guarantee monthly payment after you hit a certain age. Kind of a guaranteed rate of return for your investment. But really, at what cost?

For me, I use insurance product to insure a mishap. Hoping that I will never ever need to use it. I hope that I will never need to make a claim for the term life issued on my husband's life. I wish I would not get into a car accident to file a claim against my auto. I hope I will be quite healthy that my medical expense fall within the deductible amount and I never have to file a medical claim. Although none of my braces :mrgreen: costing USD$6100 is covered by our dental plan. All of it out of our own pocket.

I do understand health insurance falls under a "special" category. All of us, our bodies will one day fall a part needing some form of medical intervention. And it directly relates to human sufferings and well-being and we do not want a patient going to a doctor who will not treat him just because he cannot pay.

Anyway, my point being. We need a sustainable system.

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x9200
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby x9200 » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:17 pm

earthfriendly wrote:May I ask how much is your premium? Just doing hypothetical math here. If a person pays $800 (I have no idea what is the average, just hypothetical) yearly premium and runs up a bill for $5500. That would take about 8 years to even come close to breakeven. This is over simplistic but you get where I am going.

We are now on high deductible plan. Although, I think we are entitled to a free annual checkup/wellness visit (which actually helps to keep cost down if issues are caught earlier and it encourages prevention). Deductible for a our family of four is USD5,000 (or maybe 6K???). Insurance will not kick in unless we have expended this $5k ourselves. Many companies are going this route. Just so they can still afford to offer health insurance to its employees. And I will only foresee the deductible to go up, and not down.

I see this as the way to go. High deductible actually encourages people to be more judicious about using the system. Be sensible about it so there is more to spread around for more people to enjoy.


I don't remember precisely at this point but it is something between 2 to 7k (SGD) dependent on your age, where the range is here for the age up to 50s (older, gets of course more expensive). The good thing about it is that if you are relatively healthy (like myself, knock-knock unpainted wood), you may chose to pay premium where the first XXX is not covered so you need to pay it by yourself, but then the premium is also much reduced. Say (made up example), premium is 7k, I chose first 5k not covered, premium to be paid 2.5k. With this approach, if something gets wrong (and only then), you lose this $500. If you become chronically ill or have longer-term regular expenses, you just chose at the renewal to pay the whole 7k premium.

They also have or used to have some options that appear a bit weird at the first sight. For example, you can cover the pregnancy and delivery costs for ca $1k5 more added to the premium if you pay it for consecutive 15 months immediately preceding the conception. I think our total bill was over 11k so if you could a bit anticipate and control the circumstances you can get the best possible options to deliver for ca 3k.

BBCWatcher
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby BBCWatcher » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 4:29 pm

I've been thinking through some of the secondary and tertiary effects of the new MediShield Life premiums/taxes. Here are a few more interesting side effects:

1. If you own an HDB unit, you have a forced sale if you lose or give up your PR status or citizenship. The introduction of MediShield Life taxes makes it a little more expensive to time your national status termination for purposes of better timing the forced sale of your HDB unit.

2. It's the same thing with landed properties if you own one. The MediShield Life premiums mean there's a price (a tax) to delay a national status termination, and so it's more expensive to time your real estate sale as you would prefer based on real estate market conditions.

3. Since the MediShield Life premiums are both subsidized and capped, they have different impacts depending on your income and wealth. If you have lower income, then you get a premium subsidy, and so these taxes don't matter too much (or at all). It's less expensive for you (or even free) to defer your termination of citizenship or PR status. If you're high income/wealthy, then the premiums are pocket change. For example, S$435 per year (the premium that one adult in his/her 40s pays) might be less than the price of one bottle of whiskey, and you just don't care very much. This level of tax isn't something that will affect your life much at all. But if you're merely middle income, then you bear the full premium and it's a bigger percentage of your total income, so you feel it -- it's not "pocket change." Add that all together and it means that specifically middle income, "loosely attached" citizens and PRs are the ones who will be the most highly motivated to bring forward their national status terminations. Singapore is still going to hang onto its "loosely attached," wealthy citizens and PRs -- this tax won't change their behaviors with respect to maintaining or terminating their national statuses. And Singapore is still stuck with its lower income citizens and PRs, although Singapore doesn't have to grant citizenship or PR status to them in the first place, as always. (And some of them are kind of fun and adorable after all, e.g. artists and writers.)

4. Likewise, since the premium/tax increases with age, older "loosely attached" citizens and PRs will have a greater incentive to bring forward their national status terminations compared to their otherwise identical but younger peers. For example, that S$435 annual premium in your 40s almost doubles to S$815 if you're in your late 60s. And that's good, because those older people are such a burden (or could be), so why not encourage a few more of them to give up on Singapore and retire elsewhere, without the prospect of coming back?

Again, I believe all of these impacts are already well understood, that this is all "working as designed." If you were trying to design a new policy to chase away "loosely attached" PRs (mostly) and citizens at the margins, especially those who are older and/or of moderate means, and to return HDB units and landed properties more quickly to local citizen/PR occupancy, then the new MediShield Life taxes seem to be well designed.

One has to admire the government's policymaking (deviousness?) at least occasionally. They do know how to twist the knobs and pull the levers gently but deliberately, don't they? ;)

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x9200
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby x9200 » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 5:27 pm

I think the No of people that would be here chased away is insignificant so I doubt this was designed as you described. Singapore is not a particularly good place to stay for anybody who is going to retire, so the away chasers were already in place before the MSL kicked in. Actually, when you are getting older (65++) this $800 of insurance cost may become pretty attractive if one wants to stay in Singapore.

PNGMK
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 5:31 pm

Remember you should get a refund pro rata for your "unused" premium if you cancel PR part way through the year.
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby BBCWatcher » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 7:40 pm

x9200 wrote:I think the No of people that would be here chased away is insignificant....

Well, what it really does is encourage pulling forward the date when PRs (mostly) and citizens (a few) who were already planning to "disconnect" actually disconnect. Yes, of course the government designed MediShield Life primarily for its medical insurance characteristics. But the revenue raising part of it does introduce a "membership fee" to remain a part of Singapore civil society as a citizen or PR, even when living overseas. That then will have certain side effects, at the margins.

A "gentle but deliberate" nudge is a reasonable description, I'd say.

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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 14 Jan 2016 9:07 pm

PNGMK wrote:Remember you should get a refund pro rata for your "unused" premium if you cancel PR part way through the year.


I will definitely add that request to my renunciation letter.

calugaruvaxile
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby calugaruvaxile » Fri, 15 Jan 2016 4:52 am

neah, don't tell me ... the post-sg50 payback has started? but of course ... the pork barrel gifts must be paid back, what were you thinking? ehm ... no news for this year's bonuses in the public sector? :D

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ecureilx
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 15 Jan 2016 8:04 am

earthfriendly wrote:JR8 in the making :mrgreen: . I will sieve thru this tomorrow. I really got to do some zzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... My hubby is waiting or shall I say, pining :P .


Nah, JR8 has been left miles behind :D :D

chrisalves
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby chrisalves » Fri, 15 Jan 2016 2:58 pm

Ping me if you guys need any help and suggestions
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ecureilx
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 15 Jan 2016 3:11 pm

Ping me if you guys need any help and suggestions


That's a good one there :D

Why not share the information here ? :)

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x9200
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby x9200 » Fri, 15 Jan 2016 3:36 pm

chrisalves wrote:Ping me if you guys need any help and suggestions

I have a suggestion for you to stay away from any form of advertising on this board, both in the open forum and via PM.

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earthfriendly
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby earthfriendly » Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:52 am


earthfriendly
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Re: Whacked with MediShield Life Premium

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 14 Jul 2016 10:21 am

Rendering healthcare service is inherently expensive and expansive. One way to cut down cost is via economy of scale. The methodology of SG govt is draconian but I don't know how much $$$ wiggle room they have. In this case.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

The company has continued to lose money this year, even after increasing rates by an average of 29.7 percent.


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