Singapore Expats Forum

My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Siv
Regular
Regular
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri, 06 Dec 2013

Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby Siv » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 8:35 pm

ecureilx wrote:
Siv wrote:So....let me get this straight. If at point of renewing your EP after 2 years, your salary remains stagnant, you got a problem renewing EP ??

Damn.....this country is tough ! :P

Actually if you change jobs, for certain sectors, you may end up with a pay cut ... ;)


Exactly !

Which is why I find that someone would have a problem renewing EP if no pay increase for the duration of the existing EP.

It is also not uncommon for certain sectors at the moment who have frozen wages indefinitely.

Strange.....

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35159
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:01 pm

ecureilx wrote:And from what I know, if the 2 locals resign, MOM won't cancel your permit until It comes up for renewal. Somebody can clarify if that changed.


No, that hasn't changed. But they will tell you to find a local to fill the position they will not be renewed. Or, they could renew it for 12 months only as a sop to the employer (depending on how many he's had to give up in the past 3 years due to quota cuts, etc. The new tightened criteria also has renewals coming with rejections and/or 12 months with the admonishment that the individual will NOT be renewed again unless a lot changes with regard to basic criteria.

There is no reason not to expect the same thing is happening to EP holders as well, even though there are no quota. Singapore is going to reduce the foreign population come hell or high water. A lot of us are going to go home with the "why me" disease.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:46 pm

Siv wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
Siv wrote:So....let me get this straight. If at point of renewing your EP after 2 years, your salary remains stagnant, you got a problem renewing EP ??

Damn.....this country is tough ! :P

Actually if you change jobs, for certain sectors, you may end up with a pay cut ... ;)


Exactly !

Which is why I find that someone would have a problem renewing EP if no pay increase for the duration of the existing EP.

It is also not uncommon for certain sectors at the moment who have frozen wages indefinitely.

Strange.....


But ... MOM expects foreigners on work pass to show salary growth ... as a solution to address salary depression ...

PS, SMS, thanks for the clarification.

BBCWatcher
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun, 13 Sep 2015

Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:05 pm

abhi200211 wrote:Can you share some links Average salary rose to 4.95% and 4% respectively. Will be easy for me to understand.

See point #4 on this page.

Apart, My straight question how much salary I should ask my HR to provide me so my EP can be renewed.

I suppose your employer could try asking MoM that question directly. Only MoM knows the answer, but stagnant $4000/month wages was apparently the wrong answer.

Bear in mind that it's possible there is now no wage level that would change the outcome. MoM might take the point of view that, if you were worth an EP renewal per current renewal standards, you would have already been commanding increased wages. That's what tends to happen with successful salespeople. Echoing the comments upthread, MoM doesn't seem much interested in "cheap" foreign labor nowadays. Offering to raise the price after a denial doesn't necessarily convince somebody that the quality is any better.

I think this is pretty simple. If your employer wants a chance of keeping you on an EP then they're going to have to do better. The better they can do (within reason), the greater the odds they have of keeping you. So are they interested in trying to keep you or not? How interested? 10% more interested? 15%? 25%? 50%? If they are seriously interested, I don't think I'd recommend the minimum increment EP Online is indicating.

Oddly enough, MoM is protecting your interests at least as much as anyone else's. You might be willing to work for what MoM thinks are below current market rates, but it seems MoM won't let you do that. Three cheers for MoM.

Regarding S pass I worried if any 2 local staff same time resigned from my company then quota will be shaken-ed. Otherwise I have no concern.

Well, OK, but as you've discovered EPs aren't stable either. And your employer has a simple, straightforward solution to that problem: hire more resident workers to protect their quota.

If the choice is between an S Pass and leaving Singapore, which would you prefer?

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:16 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:
I suppose your employer could try asking MoM that question directly.
Only MoM knows the answer, but stagnant $4000/month wages was apparently the wrong answer.


Oh no .. seriously????????

BBCWatcher
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun, 13 Sep 2015

Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:57 pm

Sure, seriously. It's an option. Anybody can send a letter. Nobody said MoM has to answer such a letter.

Are you seriously looking for an argument? Why?

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11108
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:24 am

I've written MoM on a number of occasions. If it's for a specific point that doesn't affect policy in general, the response is usually in a few days. If it's a question with broader based policy implications, such as when I asked about working remotely for an overseas employer, it took longer to get the answer but I got one anyway.

abhi200211
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon, 15 Aug 2016

Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby abhi200211 » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 9:22 am

Hi everyone Strong Eagle, BBCWatcher, sundaymorningstaple, Siv, thanks for healthy suggestion!!

After reading your views I would ask my Boss to apply EP aagain with $300 increment [4K--> 4.3K] as EPOL tool states, I have still 2.5 months validity with my current EP If this time EP rejected will ask them to apply S pass.
Hope it should solve the problem.

Later, after three weeks will come again with you about the results!!

Finger Crossed!!
Thank you.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:08 am

Strong Eagle wrote:I've written MoM on a number of occasions. If it's for a specific point that doesn't affect policy in general, the response is usually in a few days. If it's a question with broader based policy implications, such as when I asked about working remotely for an overseas employer, it took longer to get the answer but I got one anyway.

Has MOM replied a salary question like above?

All the time for issues where salary didn't meet some requirement, the MOM officer on call gave answers like "should be more .... " but never an X amount ....

SMS, what say you ? Just wondering if MOM changed policies in answering pay related questions.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:10 am

abhi200211 wrote:After reading your views I would ask my Boss to apply EP aagain with $300 increment [4K--> 4.3K] as EPOL tool states, I have still 2.5 months validity with my current EP If this time EP rejected will ask them to apply S pass.
Hope it should solve the problem.
.


In case you missed my post, try to work for more than 300 $ raise. After all, you said your bosses need you. If you have any allowance ask the boss to add to basic salary. You gonna fall flat if you went up exactly by 300$, based on past experience.

Plus, appeals generally have low success rate nowadays unless the reason is strong.

Don't mess it up.

User avatar
singaporeflyer
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1528
Joined: Mon, 17 Aug 2009

Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby singaporeflyer » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:36 am

ecureilx wrote:In case you missed my post, try to work for more than 300 $ raise.

You gonna fall flat if you went up exactly by 300$, based on past experience.

Plus, appeals generally have low success rate nowadays unless the reason is strong.

Don't mess it up.


+1. Agree to all the above.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35159
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:42 am

I've never written to MOM regarding Salary questions.

However I have seen in our own operations that often if an "S" Pass (I've not had any EPs for a number of years now) is rejected on renewal I will resubmit with an additional $200 salary increment. Sometimes, unless it's academic criteria that has changed, it will work, but about 50% of the time is doesn't. What I normally do, rather than keep giving the MOM possible suspicions of a kickback operation (where the employee is being paid more but returns a portion back in order to continue to work), is submit a new application with the increased salary using one of our other companies that may have quota.

We never try to apply for a 'renewal' using the minimum salary required for an S pass (failure is assured as the employee should have been getting at least COLA increase and maybe more. If we are successful, then the next one up for renewal we have a pretty good idea what is going to pass muster and just submit based on that and again, unless they are being rejected for renew due to academic criteria failing, it will generally be approved as long as we have quota ( at one point I had as many as 55 S pass holders across 4 companies. (fully 25% of our total staff strength at that particular time (225 staff) Now down to 14 S pass holders across 3 companies with a total staff strength of 135. I also have 22 WP holders, 9 WP-PRCs and three on LoCs.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:58 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:However I have seen in our own operations that often if an "S" Pass (I've not had any EPs for a number of years now) is rejected on renewal I will resubmit with an additional $200 salary increment. Sometimes, unless it's academic criteria that has changed, it will work, but about 50% of the time is doesn't..


That's what I too have seen in practice, than .....

abhi200211
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon, 15 Aug 2016

Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby abhi200211 » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 1:19 pm

Yup, Agree on this point too much salary increase make MOM suspicious for kickbacks, but i don't think applicable for more then 20 years old , stock exchange listed company where audit is going by KPMG.

Just a funny line wanted to add: when i been interviewed by this existing company in june,2011 HR said we had never single rejection for S/EP pass because you are the first person we are hiring in history. Situation is still same unless one Malaysian they hired 4 months back..

So, Now we all stop our talks here for my case and I will let you know how much salary my HR put during appeal by next week.

Thanks again.

abhi200211
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon, 15 Aug 2016

Re: My EP got rejected.Requesting for suggestions!!

Postby abhi200211 » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:08 am

Hi Everyone Strong Eagle, BBCWatcher, sundaymorningstaple, Siv, thanks for waiting..
SO results are out and now my EP has been approved. It took around 14 calendar days after re appeal got result. Earlier I tried hard but my HR was not ready to increase 300+ so finally they raise 200SGD and put 4.2K/M. Now, result is approved..
Apart, my wife DP also has been approved as falls in earlier rule when DP ceiling was 4K. We both can stay together now. Thanks!!


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests