Singapore Expats Forum

Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.

Sponsored by:
Image
AE Logistics - Movers & Storage

mayz945
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun, 08 Feb 2015

Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby mayz945 » Fri, 30 Oct 2015 6:30 pm

I have made 6 holes in the wall of my flat in order to put up paintings and other framed artwork. I've had all of them filled in, but as the filler is white and the wall are off-white slightly beige colour, the owner is demanding I pay for him to repaint all 4 walls which have the holes (3 in one and 1 in each of 3 others).

What is standard? This seems like they are asking a lot IMO.

I've also moved out of the flat a while ago and its been much longer than 14 days that I have not received my deposit. Any advice?

Thank you all in advance.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9161
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby x9200 » Fri, 30 Oct 2015 7:14 pm

I don't think there is any standard but I think if the patched holes were well visible the LL might have a point.

For future reference: it is relatively easy to patch the holes and have it done this way that they are virtually not visible. One way is to use white cement instead of plaster based mixes. The cement is of off-white shade and fits the standard average color of what they call here white. Another way, somewhere in the middle of your lease you go to a paint shop, buy one can of pure white, and another, off-white, slightly darker then what you guess you have on your wall. Later, at home you do the mixing.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby JR8 » Fri, 30 Oct 2015 7:31 pm

'Here we go again!' Another tenant fighting to get their deposit back. It seems to be perhaps a fortnightly event here :cry:

I would suggest
a) Looking through this Staying/Living category for similar and likely sounding topics where this has come up before, and considering those discussions within your context.

b) As a landlord/IME when I have been faced with this issue...
i) I need to consider whether if comes under 'fair wear and tear'. I can expect a tenant to wish to hang some pictures, and I cannot expect that to leave no evidence/damage: I consider it a fact of life rather than gratuitous or negligent damage. Was there evidence of pictures having been hung before your time, and/or did the LL or the TA suggest hanging pictures was not allowed?

ii) If a tenant had gone beyond that boundary (of 'reasonableness') and I felt obliged to repaint a wall I would. If colour-matching were enough of a concern, i.e. 'reasonable' to me, then I might decide that I was obliged to repaint all walls in a room such that they matched. But I don't ever recall feeling obliged to do the latter.
I would also take into account the 'useful life' of the asset, i.e. the paint. IME in a rental I might typically expect to have to (rather than wish to) repaint the entire place about every 5 years. As you'd expect that varies widely depending on the tenant and the turn-over rate of tenants, it might be as short as 3 or occasionally as long as 10.
If it's say 5, and the paint was all new when the tenant moved in, and he leaves after 3 years, and I reckon a whole room needed repainting due to that tenant's damage then from the outset I have no Grounds for claiming 3/5=60% of the total cost. It's about being 'reasonable' and being proportionate.

p.s. My benchmark for any deductions is to ask myself; 'would my course of action be accepted as reasonable if this were to come to be disputed in court and I had to explain my decision-making in front of a judge?'. You might assume your LL is not expecting to find himself in those shoes...

Edit: The emo : - P comes out as 'Razz'.... the opposite of that intended...
Last edited by JR8 on Sun, 01 Nov 2015 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

User avatar
maneo
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat, 15 Mar 2008
Location: Titik Merah Kecil

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby maneo » Sat, 31 Oct 2015 4:32 pm

I would think that the landlord should have leftover paint to use for touch-up.

Sounds like he's trying to use your deposit money to do repainting he wants to do anyway.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9260
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 31 Oct 2015 6:02 pm

maneo wrote:Sounds like he's trying to use your deposit money to do repainting he wants to do anyway.


A lot of landlords are extremely jittery when it comes to making holes in walls.

Something along the line of looking for tenants who don't cook.

And you learn quickly that landlords want to earn money from rental but also love their house so much that a hole means they think need to
Nearly rebuild the house.

And now that they know what was done they gonna closely scrutinise for other defects.

I see not much hope for the tenant here.

Probably it should be put in a sticky, for new arrivals to Singapore, on the dos and don'ts when living in a rented flat.

Ps: 3M sticker type hooks applied properly would have prevented this ;)

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9161
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby x9200 » Sat, 31 Oct 2015 6:39 pm

I think the most important thing is to use some common sense and not get involve in a TA with a LL who sends warning signals. For every and each TA I have ever signed in this country I explicitly included the wording allowing me to drill holes for hanging painting, shelves etc. Never I had a problem with the LL objecting it. If I had, I would not rent out from such person. But then again, after the lease is completed, no one will be able to see any patched holes just looking at the walls. Sure, if you give a greedy LL an opportunity to milk you no one will be surprised if that happens.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9260
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:51 pm

x9200 wrote: But then again, after the lease is completed, no one will be able to see any patched holes just looking at the walls. .


As I said, once you have a lousy landlord who was told you put holes, he will find it ;) even if you patched it .

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4849
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 9:42 am

Color matched paint (take a chip to a paint shop). Brush the color into the wall with broad strokes (merge it in).
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10408
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 11:46 am

PNGMK wrote:Color matched paint (take a chip to a paint shop). Brush the color into the wall with broad strokes (merge it in).


Or, if the match is good, use a Q-tip to just cover the filler in the hole, nothing more. Start there.

User avatar
maneo
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat, 15 Mar 2008
Location: Titik Merah Kecil

Re: RE: Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby maneo » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 8:00 pm

ecureilx wrote:A lot of landlords are extremely jittery when it comes to making holes in walls.

Something along the line of looking for tenants who don't cook.

And you learn quickly that landlords want to earn money from rental but also love their house so much that a hole means they think need to Nearly rebuild the house.

Agree.
This will be more likely when it is the landlord's first home that he's owned, and which he's renting out for the first time.

ecureilx wrote:And now that they know what was done they gonna closely scrutinise for other defects.

If the landlord has seen the inside, he/she will remember which walls have pictures hanging and will look very closely for those holes at the end of the lease.

ecureilx wrote:I see not much hope for the tenant here.

Probably it should be put in a sticky, for new arrivals to Singapore, on the dos and don'ts when living in a rented flat.

For the original poster (OP) it is way too late; can't do anything after you've moved out.

All this wall repair needs to be done before the last day.
It would be best to allow a couple of days for touch-up paint to fully dry to be sure it's not going to be visible.

ecureilx wrote:Ps: 3M sticker type hooks applied properly would have prevented this ;)

Yes, these work well.
I have a tenant that is using them, but for a relatively light picture frame.
I wonder how long these would hold for heavy pictures (i.e. big, thick frames with glass, etc.).

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9260
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: RE: Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 8:48 pm

maneo wrote:Yes, these work well.
I have a tenant that is using them, but for a relatively light picture frame.
I wonder how long these would hold for heavy pictures (i.e. big, thick frames with glass, etc.).


I have seen a 3M Sticker hook, applied properly, still standing steady after 2 years, at a Medical Kiosk :)

And it is supporting a 2 kilo plus mirror. We actually pasted two hooks below, in case it fell off, but so far, the two hooks below are not even touching the mirror bottom - looks great. And the surface is good as well.

And also seen the stickers peeling the paint off and come crashing, when the wall painting was not good.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34261
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 10:58 pm

They don't stick worth a s**t on glazed tile either.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby JR8 » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 11:01 pm

maneo wrote:I would think that the landlord should have leftover paint to use for touch-up.
Sounds like he's trying to use your deposit money to do repainting he wants to do anyway.


I've found it surprising how much coloured paint fades within a few years; and that's in relatively low-UV Europe. So keeping 1/2 a tin for touch-ups doesn't work very well in such circumstances.

Your second point. Yes, I had thought precisely the same thing. You can go to what ever trouble/expense you like, but if the LL wants to find fault then you can bet he will.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: RE: Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby JR8 » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 11:22 pm

maneo”] This will be more likely when it is the landlord's first home that he's owned, and which he's renting out for the first time.[/quote]

^+1. Good observation. After 10+ years as a landlord I was pretty used to the inexplicable things some tenants can do to a rental. You just deal with it and move on. But when I relo’d and then rented out my own home, then some of such repairs cut waaaay deeper, it became ‘personal’.
... you're also right, there is a risk that a LLs first rental is over-managed. If it's an investment (not the LLS former home), an awful hinges on it, and he's likely a newb in dealing with the human side of it which can be interesting in a 'your clinical investment vs their *home*' way.

[quote="maneo”]If the landlord has seen the inside, he/she will remember which walls have pictures hanging and will look very closely for those holes at the end of the lease..[/quote]

Usually the picture frame leaves dust/soot marks around it’s edge on the wall. Being soot it’s hard to remove. Harder still in SG with it’s prevalence of unwashable cheap paint. The soot marks on the wall will risk telling the LL precisely where to look for repaired holes.

[quote="ecureilx wrote:
Ps: 3M sticker type hooks applied properly would have prevented this ;)


I've used them, but not for anything of value or more than maybe 500 grams. I did have one picture fall off the wall and smash to pieces, so I don't like using them, shame :-p

-- apols for the broken formatting - I checked, but I cannot for the life of me see what is causing it [sigh]
Last edited by JR8 on Sun, 01 Nov 2015 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34261
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Patching over holes in the wall after moving. What is standard?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 01 Nov 2015 11:26 pm

In my case it was a small wall clock (not a heavy one, but it did have a glass face) Made a rather big mess all over the marble floor when it shattered.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Staying, Living in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests