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Minor incident could spark war

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TMD
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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 9:47 am

ecureilx wrote:
JR8 wrote:Heh? :o I think whereas he used to be his own citizen's problem, he's now become an international one. Do a Google/Image search on 'Syrians throw man from roof' if you want to see how Assad's men operate. Mellow indeed [not]...


You are mixing ISIS with Assad :)


Interesting. I though I was the only one who notice he is mixing up other things such as who issued the nuking threat. :mrgreen:

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 10:11 am

JR8 wrote:But one of his generals did, and has Putin sacked him for highly dangerous misrepresentation - nope.


dude, "one of his generals"? - I suggest that you do a little update on this info.
And how on earth do you supposed Putin to "sake" an opposition politician after now admitting Putin didn't issue the nuking threat ?

JR8 wrote:Russia has a recent and growing history of flexing it's muscles, and pushing it's luck. The Russian fighter that Turkey shot down had crossed Turkish air-space, despite multiple warnings. Similarly the UK-RAF intercept Russian air-force fighters and bombers probing and testing UK territorial limits, on almost a weekly basis.


Hang on:
How can one consider Russia "flexing it's muscles, and pushing it's luck" when its over 1 month old military intervention was on Syrian government's invitation ?

Instead, I think that description is far more applicable to US own decade old involvement in the ME since operation "Iraqi Freedom" - all on the rational of "war against terror" founded on falsehood.

No nuking threat was made by this General against Iraq. But boy, how this epitomizes "flexing muscles, and pushing it's luck" can result in "unintended consequences" based a little "lie" in a bottle..
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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby x9200 » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 10:46 am

TMD wrote:How can one consider Russia "flexing it's muscles, and pushing it's luck" when its over 1 month old military intervention was on Syrian government's invitation ?

Ever heard of Ukraine and Crimea? As I said, you would need more European perspective to get it right.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 11:16 am

x9200 wrote:
TMD wrote:How can one consider Russia "flexing it's muscles, and pushing it's luck" when its over 1 month old military intervention was on Syrian government's invitation ?

Ever heard of Ukraine and Crimea? As I said, you would need more European perspective to get it right.


I had - from both sides of the crisis in fact - and I came away asking: How is Crimea's 2014 referendum any less legit than that of Scottish independence quest, both of which occur within that same year ?

and my next question is why the "European" (which itself isn't a real entity in cultural sense) approaches both outcomes differently ?

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby x9200 » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 12:21 pm

TMD wrote:
x9200 wrote:
TMD wrote:How can one consider Russia "flexing it's muscles, and pushing it's luck" when its over 1 month old military intervention was on Syrian government's invitation ?

Ever heard of Ukraine and Crimea? As I said, you would need more European perspective to get it right.


I had - from both sides of the crisis in fact - and I came away asking: How is Crimea's 2014 referendum any less legit than that of Scottish independence quest, both of which occur within that same year ?

and my next question is why the "European" (which itself isn't a real entity in cultural sense) approaches both outcomes differently ?


But it is a different subject.

IMO two main points:
1. Russians started to take control over Crimea already before the referendum.
2. The referendum's questions did not even contain the question about maintaining the status quo as of the time of the referendum.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 4:13 pm

x9200 wrote:Ever heard of Ukraine and Crimea? As I said, you would need more European perspective to get it right.



...Or, Russia threatening to 'take back' the break-away Baltic republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 4:16 pm

TMD wrote:
JR8 wrote:But one of his generals did, and has Putin sacked him for highly dangerous misrepresentation - nope.

dude, "one of his generals"? - I suggest that you do a little update on this info.
And how on earth do you supposed Putin to "sake" an opposition politician after now admitting Putin didn't issue the nuking threat ?


Huh? If you're sure what I said is incorrect it would be far simpler if you stated on what basis.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 4:25 pm

x9200 wrote:But it is a different subject.

Not sure what you meant by that, since you were the 1st to bring up the Crimea/Ukraine topic into this thread

x9200 wrote: IMO two main points:
1. Russians started to take control over Crimea already before the referendum.
2. The referendum's questions did not even contain the question about maintaining the status quo as of the time of the referendum.


1) Demographically, the Russians are already in control of Crimea. I guess the referendum result of over 95% speaks for itself why Kiev "lost control" after the Maidan Revolution.
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2) What's the point of conducting a referendum when the Yes/No decision is about changing the status quo ?

enuf of OT - let's get back to the real story.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 4:33 pm

JR8 wrote:Huh? If you're sure what I said is incorrect it would be far simpler if you stated on what basis.


JR8 wrote:....Putin threatened to nuke Turkey just last week...


then within 48 hours later...
JR8 wrote:....one of his (Putin) generals did, and has Putin sacked him for highly dangerous misrepresentation

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 4:34 pm

TMD wrote:
JR8 wrote:Huh? If you're sure what I said is incorrect it would be far simpler if you stated on what basis.


Initially...
JR8 wrote:....Putin threatened to nuke Turkey just last week...


....within 48 hours later...
JR8 wrote:....one of his (Putin) generals did, and has Putin sacked him for highly dangerous misrepresentation

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 4:37 pm

And interesting recollection what Obama and Putin came to conclude about IS's oil-export income in Nov, within a week before the Su-24 was downed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... oil-riches

In Putin’s meeting with Obama, the Russian president “stressed the need” to step up the fight against Islamic State’s oil business, said his spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, without providing more details.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 4:46 pm

If you think one of Putin's generals is suicidal enough to voice a nuclear threat, that doesn't come directly from Putin himself, and for that General to remain at liberty... well, there perhaps is little more to discuss.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby x9200 » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 6:47 pm

TMD wrote:
x9200 wrote:But it is a different subject.

Not sure what you meant by that, since you were the 1st to bring up the Crimea/Ukraine topic into this thread

Flexing muscles is mostly about the Ukraine/Crimea crisis, not the Syrian one.


x9200 wrote: IMO two main points:
1. Russians started to take control over Crimea already before the referendum.
2. The referendum's questions did not even contain the question about maintaining the status quo as of the time of the referendum.


1) Demographically, the Russians are already in control of Crimea. I guess the referendum result of over 95% speaks for itself why Kiev "lost control" after the Maidan Revolution.
Image

Using this logic China should have right to take over Singapore.

2) What's the point of conducting a referendum when the Yes/No decision is about changing the status quo ?

I don't understand what you mean.

enuf of OT - let's get back to the real story.


Yes, enough.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Eltonios » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 8:34 pm

x9200, Why run? Anyone can openly lie. But sooner or later everyone will know the truth.

Aah, the Ukrainian ... Nothing personal. We have become accustomed to, that they are trying to annoy Russia, the Russian people as a whole. Not all of course. But there are "people" who rejoice, for example, the Russian plane crash Airbus in Egypt or any problems of Russia.

Hard to believe? You probably easier to believe what is said in the US White House or on CNN, BBC, is not it?!

Propaganda is exactly what extend "friends" above, and such events, trying to set up people's minds negatively towards Russia. And I'll write the facts.

Reading your comments, in particular the Crimea. Guys, it's not even want to discuss. Take a ticket to Sevastopol, Simferopol, and personally get to know the people living there about the alleged annexation, seizure and other nonsense that writing English-language media. People made their choice. Now happy in the present. A Ukrainian nationalists are still trying every possible way to spoil. Recently blew power lines. Leaving the Crimean peninsula without power. Russia now spent one energy bridge, and is preparing a second. To be independent from the Ukrainian electricity.

Do not believe everything you read, or at least check on different sources, be critical.

By the way about the Su-24. Yesterday, it was found the black box. Putin said that he would be opened only with specialists from other countries. This box is recorded various flight parameters that are likely to respond to many questions.

Compresse di buona qualità https://derzko.wordpress.com soprattutto per gli uomini con sintomi di impotenza.
Last edited by Eltonios on Sat, 20 Feb 2016 4:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Barnsley » Wed, 09 Dec 2015 8:44 pm

Welcome to our Russian friend.

As someone who takes a passing interest in world affairs , can I ask you, are you not disappointed that Russia appears to have spent all its oil and gas money on military equipment and general self aggrandising projects for the Communist Party?

No country should ape others and should go your own path , but if I was a Russian citizen I would wonder where all the money went, and ask why are we not world leaders in anything of benefit to the masses?

Maybe it is all biscuits and gravy in Russia and I havent seen the real Russia, so please shed some light.
Life is short, paddle harder!!


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