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Minor incident could spark war

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TMD
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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Mon, 09 Nov 2015 2:36 pm

Barnsley wrote:
JR8 wrote:2 SELF-RELIANCE
Second, we rely, first and foremost, on ourselves. Believing that the world does not owe us a living, Singapore did not seek foreign aid from the developed countries. We did not want to develop a dependency mentality. Instead, we concentrated our energies on attracting foreign investment and creating jobs for our people. We started building up our armed forces and introduced national service in order to develop a capacity to deter aggression.


Whats the difference in paying companies to come here and foreign aid?
I think semantics as the end result is the same.
You are reliant upon foreigners for your well being.


Firstly, when you write "You are reliant upon foreigners for your well being", I assume you are inferring to Singaporeans or "locals", rather than me.

Second, I would prefer the word "interdependence" rather than "reliance".
Because if it had been the later, they wouldn't have spend a significant proportion of GDP on defense nor would Newater exist.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 20 Nov 2015 12:32 pm

Excerpt mention of the American presence.

“Lee Kuan Yew told (the Americans) that while we cannot replace Clark and Subic, because they are about the size of Singapore, if you would like to have your ships or aircraft come through and stop by in Singapore, we will try and see what we can do to facilitate that.

“The Americans took up that offer and that is why we have this arrangement. I think it is good, it is helpful to the Americans.

“At the same time, we keep an open house and others who come by visiting, we are happy to host them, Chinese warships, Japanese warships and Australian ships.”


https://www.facebook.com/notes/lee-hsie ... 1653079874

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Fri, 20 Nov 2015 3:23 pm

IMO, "incidents" could NOT spark war, let alone "minor" ones.
Instead, war is often initiated deliberately using misinformation and manufactured/imaginary outside aggressions.

"Incidents" that "trigger" war:
Gleiwitz incident
Gulf of Tonkin incident
Marco Polo Bridge Incident
Iraq's WMD (perhaps?)

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 24 Nov 2015 5:05 pm

Turkey shoots down Russian Jet ....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983

Turkish warplanes have reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on the border with Syria.
Russia's Interfax news agency cited the Russian defence ministry as saying that a Su-24 had crashed in northern Syria, and that its two pilots had ejected.
Turkish military officials said Turkish F-16s shot down the plane after warning its pilots that they were violating Turkish airspace.
Video footage showed the plane crashing into mountains in Latakia province.
Russian launched an air campaign to bolster Syrian President Bashar al-Assad against rebels in late September.


Lots of enemy of my enemy in the area .....

The interested parties will do well not to have the ISIS issue spiral totally out of control!
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 27 Nov 2015 11:18 am

Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 27 Nov 2015 11:36 am



What coalition? Russia is killing anti Assad rebels while alleging it is killing ISIS. Thanks to George Bush, Russia feels free to intervene in whatever way it likes... a long term consequence of the seriously ill advised policies of Bush and Cheney... for sure, Cheney should be tried for treason... Bush... maybe not... just too stupid to see what was happening.

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:28 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:What coalition? Russia is killing anti Assad rebels while alleging it is killing ISIS. Thanks to George Bush, Russia feels free to intervene in whatever way it likes... a long term consequence of the seriously ill advised policies of Bush and Cheney... for sure, Cheney should be tried for treason... Bush... maybe not... just too stupid to see what was happening.


So the US is there to rid the dictator Assad ?

I thought objective no 1 was to unseat Assad, who's a Baathist, and objective no 2 was ISIS.

Now the objectives have changed, first ISIS, next Assad.

On the other hand, read a write up on Syria, how the Anti Assad fellows were initially bad, but since they are now fighting ISIS, they have become good ..

while the ISIS folks, since they are fighting Assad, maybe good, but since they are also fighting Anti Assad guys, they are bad ..

and Turkey, while being a good guy (they are on our side) are also bad, because they are killing the Kurds (who are good and our friends too) because the Turks want a buffer zone IN SYRIA ( ;) ) to put all the unwanted Kurds (oh, that's bad) but the Turks are also claiming to kill the ISIS, so for now they are good ...

If I find the whole quote, let me post it here. :)
Last edited by ecureilx on Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:58 pm

Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby maneo » Sun, 29 Nov 2015 1:50 am


If this is read from the viewpoint that this is what the Daesh themselves believe, then it is revealing.
However, most Muslims dispute the selective literal interpretations, and thus take issue with the implications in the article:

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/02/18/3624121/atlantic-gets-dangerously-wrong-isis-islam/

Nevertheless, I saw Graeme Wood on Charlie Rose's show the other night, along with Will McCants.
Both seemed to have a good understanding of what is going on.

In fact a review by Susan Grigsby of McCants' book, The ISIS Apocalypse ..., states, "If you only have time to read one book about the Islamic State, ... this is the book to read."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/22/1450914/-A-review-of-The-ISIS-Apocalypse-by-William-McCants

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby earthfriendly » Sun, 29 Nov 2015 12:07 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... spartandhp


In interviews with his biographer, Mr. Bush said that Mr. Cheney built “his own empire” and asserted too much “hard-line” influence within George W. Bush’s White House in pushing for the use of force around the world. Mr. Rumsfeld, the elder Mr. Bush said, was an “arrogant fellow” who could not see how others thought and “served the president badly.”

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 29 Nov 2015 12:21 pm

earthfriendly wrote:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/elder-bush-says-his-son-was-served-badly-by-aides/ar-BBmRgsE?ocid=spartandhp


In interviews with his biographer, Mr. Bush said that Mr. Cheney built “his own empire” and asserted too much “hard-line” influence within George W. Bush’s White House in pushing for the use of force around the world. Mr. Rumsfeld, the elder Mr. Bush said, was an “arrogant fellow” who could not see how others thought and “served the president badly.”


And that's mainly because "Dubya" himself was a couple of fries short of a happy meal and easily mislead.

Adding... this is the guy who said of Putin: “I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy."

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 01 Dec 2015 2:41 pm

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/russia-sends-nuclear-war-signals-turkey/

Russia can easily destroy Turkey with nuclear bomb: Russian MP

A Russian MP has recently outlined how easy it would be for Russia to destroy Turkey.

“You just chuck one nuclear bomb into the straits, and there’d be a huge flood. The water would rise by 10-15 meters and the whole city would disappear,” said Vladimir Zhirinovsky, leader of the misnamed Liberal Democratic party, according to the Daily Mail.


Marvellous!!
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Sun, 06 Dec 2015 11:16 pm

IS this true ? That Turkey is indirectly funding IS operation in Syria ?


Russia accuses US of cover-up over IS oil smuggling to Turkey
Russia's defence ministry on Saturday accused the United States of turning a blind eye to the trafficking of oil into Turkey from Syrian areas under Islamic State control, after Washington called the amounts involved insignificant.

"When US officials say they don't see how the terrorists' oil is smuggled to Turkey... it smells badly of a desire to cover up these acts," the ministry said on its Facebook page.


http://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/rus ... ar-AAg3Vey


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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Sun, 06 Dec 2015 11:30 pm

'Russia says...'. Well i wouldn't trust the Russians as far as I could throw them, as the saying goes.
Mind you Turkey are up to their necks in playing one faction off against another. But keep in mind the charming Putin threatened to nuke Turkey just last week or so...

p.s. and the impression I get re: oil coming from Syria into Turkey is that it's the equivalent of running home-made moonshine over the border. It's low quality, and in small volumes. I can see why the US suggest it is insignificant, within the greater scheme of things that's about it.

pps Both Russia and Turkey are playing off ISIS and Syria for their own advantage. It's hard to know from one week to the next who is supporting whom, as it shifts so fast. But loosely, Moscow support Syria/Assad (for his oil exports to Russia), and Turkey support ISIS to try and keep Assad in check, since he's a megalomaniac and right on the door-step.
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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 07 Dec 2015 8:03 am

JR8 wrote:pps Both Russia and Turkey are playing off ISIS and Syria for their own advantage. It's hard to know from one week to the next who is supporting whom, as it shifts so fast. But loosely, Moscow support Syria/Assad (for his oil exports to Russia), and Turkey support ISIS to try and keep Assad in check, since he's a megalomaniac and right on the door-step.


I would say Turkey is "tolerating" ISIS, as long as there is a chance to dump the unwanted Kurds and Friendly Turkmen.

Ok, what how bad of a guy is Assad ? His baathist party is a form of socialism, and he was not getting involved in other people's business till Iraq fell and refugees started to pour in.

Oh, wait, he wants his land bring occupied by Israel. Is that what its all about ? Added to his keeping the Lebanese factions in check, lest the problems spill over.

Truth is Assad has mellowed.


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