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Minor incident could spark war

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Strong Eagle
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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:16 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:SE I seem to remember you going to the Navy Ball (?) a number of years ago? I can't remember whether it was the Navy ball or not. Did you ever have a chance to meet Alice Pecos from the Navy Dept? Delightful elderly lady with the beautiful TC MG?


Yes, I attended the Navy Ball a couple of times and was active in the Navy League for my entire time in Singapore. I got to tour 6 aircraft carriers... the Nimitz tour was the best... we went all over the place, and the submarine accompanying the strike force. Also toured hospital ships and various facilities at Sembawang.

The wife and I had many of the crew over for home cooked meals over the years... a program created by the Navy League and the American Association of Singapore... it was great! Also got to attend several receptions on the aircraft carriers, one being for the new US ambassador a while back.

I didn't know the woman you refer to but I knew many others, including Rear Admiral Nora Tyson, who ran the whole show out here. As part of the Navy League, I attended regular talks, presented by Tyson, covering China, littoral ships, budgets, and much more. The US has been aware of China's intentions for many years... trying to create a considered and effective response that doesn't cause a major escalation is the primary problem.

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:32 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:A bit of research will quickly show that no country pays the USA to maintain a base... it's always the opposite... the USA must pay to retain a base... even in countries like the Philippines whose interests are served by having a US military presence in the region.


I know Singapore is not paying the US, but they are spending a lot on infrastructure that is tailored more towards the US.

Example, the Changi Navy Base that was built to accommodate large carriers .. when Singapore has nothing that nears a Carrier, in terms of size.

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:24 am

ecureilx wrote:I know Singapore is not paying the US, but they are spending a lot on infrastructure that is tailored more towards the US.

Example, the Changi Navy Base that was built to accommodate large carriers .. when Singapore has nothing that nears a Carrier, in terms of size.


The USA paid for every last modification to Changi naval base to make it a carrier strike force dock. And, they pay several million dollars in rent to the Singapore government each time a carrier strike force arrives, never mind the additional millions they paid for supplies and repairs to the now discredited Glenn Defense Marine

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 1:20 am

Strong Eagle wrote:The USA paid for every last modification to Changi naval base to make it a carrier strike force dock. And, they pay several million dollars in rent to the Singapore government each time a carrier strike force arrives, never mind the additional millions they paid for supplies and repairs to the now discredited Glenn Defense Marine


Interesting, I never knew they paid Singapore so much :-k :-k That's impressive :) How would Singapore write the payments received ? Charges for "HUSBANDING" services ? It sounds a bit corny in this context :D

Glenn Defense ? Well, I happened to see a Glenn Defence crew working on one of their barges in PH. The "SAILORS" were wearing Rubber slippers on deck - looks like a lot of money went from the USN to the pockets of who-knows-who .. instead of basic safety equipment for the low level crew.

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 1:43 am

ecureilx wrote:Glenn Defense ? Well, I happened to see a Glenn Defence crew working on one of their barges in PH. The "SAILORS" were wearing Rubber slippers on deck - looks like a lot of money went from the USN to the pockets of who-knows-who .. instead of basic safety equipment for the low level crew.


It's not so much the way GDM fulfilled their contracts, it's how they went about them getting them. The US Navy relied on GDM while in port (and more ports than just Singapore) for such things as hauling of trash, supplies replenishment, refueling, etc. Apparently there were no serious issues around the service provided.

What did matter is the way GDM went about getting contracts with the US Navy and the handful of high level Navy commanders who were willing to take bribes in exchange for favorable (and excessive) contract terms with GDM. I was glad to see that none of the Naval Officers I knew were implicated in the bribery scheme.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby thismyvoice » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:36 pm

JR8 wrote:As a leading power in ASEAN, why aren't the SAF up there exerting influence over their region?

Easier to stay at home whilst the Americans try their best to sort it out... as SE suggests...

p.s. Next we'll have more whining/protests over how the US appoint themselves as the world's policeman. And they could have done this little bit differently, or this little detail (in the fog of war) better... [spits in gutter]


As a small country, Singapore knows its place. Besides, it has zero claims so why court trouble.

Reference some recent good articles.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the ... rajaratnam
http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/for ... ing-matter

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Sun, 08 Nov 2015 6:02 am

ecureilx wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:A bit of research will quickly show that no country pays the USA to maintain a base... it's always the opposite... the USA must pay to retain a base... even in countries like the Philippines whose interests are served by having a US military presence in the region.


I know Singapore is not paying the US, but they are spending a lot on infrastructure that is tailored more towards the US. Example, the Changi Navy Base that was built to accommodate large carriers .. when Singapore has nothing that nears a Carrier, in terms of size.


I don't recall Changi NB is ever made to be a USN base nor funded by US nor build just to service the USN Pacific fleet. After all, Changi is available to maritime ships access from countries which the US may consider as potential foe.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo ... 694898.htm
PLA navy ship "Harbin" missile destroyer arriving at Changi NB
Image

In any case, sg navy recently indicate that their intention to acquire at least one helicopter carrier which they called it as Joint Multi-Mission Ship which might be based on their current Endurance-Class LST.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/navy/careers/o ... pment.html

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Sun, 08 Nov 2015 6:16 am

Sg, pay for their own defence.... well that would be a first, they certainly haven't done so since WW2. Why do you think SGn taxes are so low - they're subsidised by others (shock: It's not world-class 'unique' national politicians')
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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby thismyvoice » Sun, 08 Nov 2015 10:34 am

JR8 wrote:Sg, pay for their own defence.... well that would be a first, they certainly haven't done so since WW2. Why do you think SGn taxes are so low - they're subsidised by others (shock: It's not world-class 'unique' national politicians')


Singapore's defense budget for FY2015 is US$9.5billion. That is 3.3% of GDP and close to 20% of the government budget. Per capita spending on defense in FY2014 was US$1789. That is a lot of money spent on defense, and is easily the highest in the entire region. Most of the purchases are from US by the way.

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 08 Nov 2015 11:21 pm

TMD wrote:I don't recall Changi NB is ever made to be a USN base nor funded by US nor build just to service the USN Pacific fleet. After all, Changi is available to maritime ships access from countries which the US may consider as potential foe.


You need to get educated then.

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 09 Nov 2015 8:58 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
TMD wrote:I don't recall Changi NB is ever made to be a USN base nor funded by US nor build just to service the USN Pacific fleet. After all, Changi is available to maritime ships access from countries which the US may consider as potential foe.


You need to get educated then.



I think TMD is confused. The only naval ships I've seen in the CNB are either Singapore flagged or of allies of Singapore (Australia/India/NZ/USA etc).
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Mon, 09 Nov 2015 1:58 pm

JR8 wrote:Sg, pay for their own defence.... well that would be a first, they certainly haven't done so since WW2. Why do you think SGn taxes are so low - they're subsidised by others (shock: It's not world-class 'unique' national politicians')


http://www.mfa.gov.sg/content/mfa/media ... 325_1.html

2 SELF-RELIANCE
Second, we rely, first and foremost, on ourselves. Believing that the world does not owe us a living, Singapore did not seek foreign aid from the developed countries. We did not want to develop a dependency mentality. Instead, we concentrated our energies on attracting foreign investment and creating jobs for our people. We started building up our armed forces and introduced national service in order to develop a capacity to deter aggression.

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby maneo » Mon, 09 Nov 2015 2:01 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
TMD wrote:I don't recall Changi NB is ever made to be a USN base nor funded by US nor build just to service the USN Pacific fleet. After all, Changi is available to maritime ships access from countries which the US may consider as potential foe.


You need to get educated then.



I think TMD is confused. The only naval ships I've seen in the CNB are either Singapore flagged or of allies of Singapore (Australia/India/NZ/USA etc).

This says more about what you don't see than it does about what is actually happening.

As it turns out, Chinese ships have visited Singapore several times in the past few years:

https://thelongnwindingroad.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/the-naval-powers-collide-at-changi/
http://www.china.org.cn/world/2013-09/05/content_29944651.htm
http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20111219-316948.html

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Barnsley » Mon, 09 Nov 2015 2:10 pm

JR8 wrote:2 SELF-RELIANCE
Second, we rely, first and foremost, on ourselves. Believing that the world does not owe us a living, Singapore did not seek foreign aid from the developed countries. We did not want to develop a dependency mentality. Instead, we concentrated our energies on attracting foreign investment and creating jobs for our people. We started building up our armed forces and introduced national service in order to develop a capacity to deter aggression.


Whats the difference in paying companies to come here and foreign aid?

I think semantics as the end result is the same.

You are reliant upon foreigners for your well being.
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby TMD » Mon, 09 Nov 2015 2:26 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
TMD wrote:I don't recall Changi NB is ever made to be a USN base nor funded by US nor build just to service the USN Pacific fleet. After all, Changi is available to maritime ships access from countries which the US may consider as potential foe.

You need to get educated then.


I think TMD is confused. The only naval ships I've seen in the CNB are either Singapore flagged or of allies of Singapore (Australia/India/NZ/USA etc).


There is no confusion nor any ambiguity when come to Singapore's position, in terms of who calls at its CNB.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/resour ... _news.html
http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+Ne ... 16948.html
http://english.sina.com/china/p/2009/1210/292103.html

Also, I certainly won't called Singapore having a military "alliance" with any major power since independence, including the FPDA, which itself is more of a loose agreement than in cold-hard clear definition as like that of NATO or the U.S.-Japan Security Alliance. In fact, AFAIK, it has been Singapore's policy to remain neutral which obviously had paid dividend in last half a century.


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