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Minor incident could spark war

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Minor incident could spark war

Postby menudown » Fri, 30 Oct 2015 3:34 pm


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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 30 Oct 2015 9:19 pm

If only China didn't build a permanent aircraft carrier in the south China sea by reclaiming reefs as islands for "humanitarian" purposes......

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:04 pm

This is no 'minor incident'. This is China in exercising its expansionist policy. China all of a sudden deems that waters that have been 'international' for decades are suddenly theirs through the construction of a few airstrips.

It's a calculated move... and those that could lose the most, the SE Asian countries... stand by meekly, while the USA stands up for its (and their) interests in the region.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby nakatago » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 6:30 am

Strong Eagle wrote:This is no 'minor incident'. This is China in exercising its expansionist policy. China all of a sudden deems that waters that have been 'international' for decades are suddenly theirs through the construction of a few airstrips.

It's a calculated move... and those that could lose the most, the SE Asian countries... stand by meekly, while the USA stands up for its (and their) interests in the region.


This.

Say what you will about the Americans but they're (Filipinos') best bet in even marginally coming close to 'wining.'

Also, China apparently signed up for UNCLOS and now they're changing their minds?!?

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 9:08 am

nakatago wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:This is no 'minor incident'. This is China in exercising its expansionist policy. China all of a sudden deems that waters that have been 'international' for decades are suddenly theirs through the construction of a few airstrips.

It's a calculated move... and those that could lose the most, the SE Asian countries... stand by meekly, while the USA stands up for its (and their) interests in the region.


This.

Say what you will about the Americans but they're (Filipinos') best bet in even marginally coming close to 'wining.'

Also, China apparently signed up for UNCLOS and now they're changing their minds?!?


and the US never signed up for UNCLOS.
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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 2:23 pm

As a leading power in ASEAN, why aren't the SAF up there exerting influence over their region?

Easier to stay at home whilst the Americans try their best to sort it out... as SE suggests...

p.s. Next we'll have more whining/protests over how the US appoint themselves as the world's policeman. And they could have done this little bit differently, or this little detail (in the fog of war) better... [spits in gutter]
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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 2:30 pm

JR8 wrote:As a leading power in ASEAN, why aren't the SAF up there exerting influence over their region?

Easier to stay at home whilst the Americans try their best to sort it out... as SE suggests...

p.s. Next we'll have more whining/protests over how the US appoint themselves as the world's policeman. And they could have done this little bit differently, or this little detail (in the fog of war) better... [spits in gutter]


Eh? Singapore has ZERO territorial claim. Now if the Chinese decide to block a Singapore flagged ship from sailing through international waters that might be another thing.
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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 3:23 pm

JR8 wrote:As a leading power in ASEAN, why aren't the SAF up there exerting influence over their region?

Easier to stay at home whilst the Americans try their best to sort it out... as SE suggests...


SG inc has spent a lot of money, with low ROI, to keep US anchored in Singapore, says me. Stuff that doesn't get much publicity....

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 3:34 pm

PNGMK wrote:Eh? Singapore has ZERO territorial claim. Now if the Chinese decide to block a Singapore flagged ship from sailing through international waters that might be another thing.


One of the few who don't have a claim over those islands...
But, no I'm not suggesting that they do. But SG have a sizeable standing military, presumably for some external/regional reason [?], so as a loud voice in ASEAN [?] why don't they use that power? Consider if the trade route (via SGn ports) to the NE was prejudiced... nope, leave it to the 'mericans again.
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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 3:40 pm

ecureilx wrote:SG inc has spent a lot of money, with low ROI, to keep US anchored in Singapore, says me. Stuff that doesn't get much publicity....


Buying the US military as some kind of mutually convenient mercenary armed forces, whilst SGns stay safe back home? Reminds me of the duplicitous French and their largely foreigner manned Foreign Legion.
[I'm not inviting a flame-war, really :lol: ]
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 4:09 pm

JR8 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:SG inc has spent a lot of money, with low ROI, to keep US anchored in Singapore, says me. Stuff that doesn't get much publicity....


Buying the US military as some kind of mutually convenient mercenary armed forces, whilst SGns stay safe back home? Reminds me of the duplicitous French and their largely foreigner manned Foreign Legion.
[I'm not inviting a flame-war, really ]


But, why get involved in a war where you have no claim?

Singapore has a lot to lose if they take sides. At the moment it's great to exercise deterrence ... I think ...

Ps, Singapore has been supporting the WOT and patrols in Gulf + anti piracy patrols.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby JR8 » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 5:45 pm

I didn't suggest any war; I meant exerting geo-political influence. Why is the US navy there, rather than ASEANs?

CN aren't building holiday camps on the Spratly's, they're doing it to exert regional power. I'm not down-playing (*at all*) how the SGn military capacity is employed. I suppose I'm more curious how they can be employed abroad in foreign trouble-spots, as you note, ahead of doing similar on their own door-step.


p.s. This topic is rather emotive and risks misunderstanding; so I'm going to tread carefully from here :)
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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 7:53 pm

Image
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Re: RE: Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 9:40 pm

ecureilx wrote:SG inc has spent a lot of money, with low ROI, to keep US anchored in Singapore, says me. Stuff that doesn't get much publicity....


I think you'll find the situation to be exactly the opposite to what you just wrote. While Singapore has received no direct military aid from the USA in the last few years, over the decades it has received more that USD 100 million in direct military aid from the USA.

And while there is currently no direct aid, the USA pays large sums of money to Singapore in order to maintain a military presence. This includes the American presence in Sembawang, and the carrier strike force docking facilities (paid for by the USA) at Changi naval base. Every time a carrier strike force comes into port, the USA pays Singapore several million dollars in "rent" to dock at the facility.

A bit of research will quickly show that no country pays the USA to maintain a base... it's always the opposite... the USA must pay to retain a base... even in countries like the Philippines whose interests are served by having a US military presence in the region.

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Re: Minor incident could spark war

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 02 Nov 2015 10:54 pm

Very close friend of mine, retired SG police officer and a member of my RC, just retired, after 20 years, from NAVFAC (Naval Facilities Engineering Command) at the PSA Sembawang Terminal (he's a year younger than myself). Local SG Civilian with a heck of a lot of stroke apparently as he spent half of his time flying back & forth to/from the US. He was the Facility Projects & Planning Director.

SE I seem to remember you going to the Navy Ball (?) a number of years ago? I can't remember whether it was the Navy ball or not. Did you ever have a chance to meet Alice Pecos from the Navy Dept? Delightful elderly lady with the beautiful TC MG?


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