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Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

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NCD22
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Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby NCD22 » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 7:42 am

Morning all,

Anyone here have experience with converting an auto to bio diesel or natural gas here in Sing? Am thinking of getting a car but cant justify it if i cant convert to natural gas or preferably bio diesel.

Have asked around and no one seems to know much about it which is surprising because as much as the locals bitch and moan about the haze, the majority still drive plain old gas guzzling cars and aspire to own even worse polluters such as Ferrari's and such. I would have thought that Sing would go bio/natural just as a matter of principle.

Anyways, thanks in advance!

:wink: ››NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE REAL THING‹‹ :wink:

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 9:45 am

Big difference between natural gas and bio diesel. Compressed natural gas conversions can be readily done, many taxis in KL and Hong Kong are converted, I think some in Singapore as well. Big tank in trunk, no place to put luggage. Mainly consists of carburetor change out and ignition timing.

Diesel... there will not be a conversion available. Diesel engines require much higher compression levels to operate... your standard gasoline engine is not designed to deal with those pressures and will destruct.

You have to be careful with bio diesel because there are many different sources. For example, palm oil plants, corn, and soy beans, with palm oil be especially environmentally destructive.

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby mechanix » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:53 am

Due to many Taxi companies phase out CNG, I think CNG station can't sustain further. As I know Serangoon CNG station selling diesel instead of CNG, and the rest is located at Mandai, Toh Tuck & Jurong Island. Why not considering Toyota Hybrid.

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby NCD22 » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:12 pm

@ Strong Eagle: Yes, well aware of the constraints of switching to bio diesel, it is possible with older vehicles, but if there is no ready source of it in Sing, then not useful. I used to convert VW bugs to bio diesel quite easily, but you have to have a source of it, also, modern cars can be made to run on it: http://notpetroleum.com/2010/06/06/how- ... biodiesel/

@ mechanix CNG is as stated a less desirable option, but again, if I have to drive across the island to get to the one station that provides it, then it is not worth it. Hybrids, well, haven't seen one that has the performance of a straight up internal combustion engine, and since Sing blocked Tesla there are not many options...

Oh well, still seems just plain hypocritical that with the COE program being what it is, the entire country could be put onto electric or at the worst CNG within 10 years, but guess the oil kings have their claws in Sing as much as anywhere else...
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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby x9200 » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 1:08 pm

NCD22 wrote:Have asked around and no one seems to know much about it which is surprising because as much as the locals bitch and moan about the haze, the majority still drive plain old gas guzzling cars and aspire to own even worse polluters such as Ferrari's and such. I would have thought that Sing would go bio/natural just as a matter of principle.

The only local, end-user incentive for CNG was the price. This is not so good right now according to a colleague of mine who had his Honda converted some few years earlier. That's about it.

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 9:44 pm

NCD22 wrote:@ Strong Eagle: Yes, well aware of the constraints of switching to bio diesel, it is possible with older vehicles, but if there is no ready source of it in Sing, then not useful.


That is simply not correct. Most naturally aspirated gasoline engines have compression ratios in the area of 7.5 or 8 to 1, with 10 to 1 about the maximum. Diesel engines average about a 17 to 1 compression ratio. Attempting to increase compression by this degree (and I don't think you could do it) would result in fractured rods, holes punched in pistons, blown head gaskets, and bent crankshafts. Broken rods and pistons are a common result of adding an aftermarket turbo charger, boosting only a couple of psi.

You'd need to add an injection system, upgrade the starter to be able to crank the motor, and more. The conversion cost would be so prohibitive, you'd be far better off selling your petrol powered car and buying diesel.

There are two prime advantages of CNG. First is that for a given amount of energy, the production costs for CNG are lower than that of petrol. Second, because CNG is almost totally methane, CH4, it is less polluting than petrol in terms of CO2 emissions and other combustion by-products.

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Re: RE: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:53 pm

NCD22 wrote: as much as the locals bitch and moan about the haze, the majority still drive plain old gas guzzling cars and aspire to own even worse polluters such as Ferrari's and such.


Irony ...

The haze here is caused by land clearing for palm plantations .. palm that's used for Bio Diesel ....

Unless you thought the haze here is self inflicted ..
Last edited by ecureilx on Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:25 pm

Considering the amount of unburned hydrocarbons emitted daily here by cars puttering along on the expressways and half of the posted speed limits, nobody should complain about a little haze unless they are using public transport.

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby JR8 » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 12:34 am

Ecu, you beat me to it, I was going to make the very same point :)
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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 12:40 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Considering the amount of unburned hydrocarbons emitted daily here by cars puttering along on the expressways and half of the posted speed limits, nobody should complain about a little haze unless they are using public transport.


And those two cycle motorbike whizzers... put out 30 times as much pollution as a full size car.

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Re: RE: Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 1:24 am

Strong Eagle wrote:And those two cycle motorbike whizzers... put out 30 times as much pollution as a full size car.


Technically the 2 stroke bikes... not the 4 stroke bikes ... ;)

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 8:35 am

That's what he said, squirrel. You been on the parrot juice again?

You do know what two cycle means, don't you? You also remember he used to drive a Valk here? I think he knows the diff. ;-)

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Re: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 9:38 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:That's what he said, squirrel. You been on the parrot juice again?

You do know what two cycle means, don't you? You also remember he used to drive a Valk here? I think he knows the diff. ;-)


American vs British English :D

Two Cycle, Two Stroke :P

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Last edited by ecureilx on Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: RE: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby x9200 » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 9:54 am

ecureilx wrote:
NCD22 wrote: as much as the locals bitch and moan about the haze, the majority still drive plain old gas guzzling cars and aspire to own even worse polluters such as Ferrari's and such.


Irony ...

The haze here is caused by land clearing for palm plantations .. palm that's used for Bio Diesel ....

Unless you thought the haze here is self inflicted ..

Is the haze (typical observed levels) having any negative impact to the natural environment? I would expects the effects to be pretty positive.

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Re: RE: Bio diesel/natural gas conversion

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:52 am

x9200 wrote:Is the haze (typical observed levels) having any negative impact to the natural environment? I would expects the effects to be pretty positive.


Except for the fact that the haze is a result of burning down millions of acres of native rain forest, with attendant displacement of native fauna. In it's place will be planted palm oil trees, millions of them, five to six years waiting for harvest, then about 20 harvestable years before they stop producing. Leave them to rot or set them on fire because the land on which rain forest grows is very low nutrient and depleted and left to waste after the palm oil plantation goes away.

What's positive about this?


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