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PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
homer_shenzhen
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby homer_shenzhen » Mon, 26 Oct 2015 7:10 pm

ecureilx wrote:Anyway, upto you and OP, and good luck to you and OP if you think I am spewing drivel.

From what I have seen, ICA staff of late been asking more documents at their discretion, than less, so go prepared, than not, and let the ICA staff decide, is my 2 cents

Over arguing ? Oh man, I give up. I didn't know you need to argue and appeal and present your case at ICA.

Certainly not ecureilx, you make a very good point here. I tend agree with you that giving ICA all the information they ask for and more can only help at best, and do nothing at worst, especially when their evaluation criteria are not public knowledge and perhaps not even static (although I hope I don't need my high school certificate because I don't where it is).

It's a subtle but certain difference from say when the tax authorities send an audit notice - in such cases one only answers what they ask, rather than volunteering extra information when they have nothing to hide, because that can still be turned around as fodder for additional questions.

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 26 Oct 2015 8:12 pm

Homer, I'm not sure where you call home, but if you are from the US, if the Tax Man calleth, he might be auditing one thing but the whole tax return will be scrutinized so, while you shouldn't 'bare your soul', you better be prepared to back up everything you put on your tax return. I've been to almost 300 IRS audits with our clients over an 8 years span when I was the District Director for H & R Block from '69~76. It's the same with ICA. If you put it on your application, be prepared to verify it with black & white as the saying goes. You don't need to give it to them but you best have it available if requested. However, normally in better times before the 2011 GE (not the current one) if you could document your highest degree it was usually sufficient. Not always true today, what with so many fraudulent and/or paper mill docs turning up even in the civil service.

What you need to worry about more is your ethnicity. You said you were Indian. I can assume you are a Native American? If not, if you are an India Indian, and are a naturalized American Citizen, you have much more to worry about than school documentation. ICA may see you as not being the stable type who will just move on in a couple of years, so why bother to give PR. And your wife, sadly, is not what would be considered high on the governments want list at the moment (However, if she were and ABC/BBC/CBC or Malaysian Chinese, it wouldn't hurt you at all. In fact, if she were Malaysian Chinese it would be a plus (and if you are not a Native American, I think you may need all the pluses you can get).

That's how I read this thread at the moment. Can you clarify my assumptions?

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby homer_shenzhen » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:51 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Homer, I'm not sure where you call home, but if you are from the US, if the Tax Man calleth, he might be auditing one thing but the whole tax return will be scrutinized so, while you shouldn't 'bare your soul', you better be prepared to back up everything you put on your tax return. I've been to almost 300 IRS audits with our clients over an 8 years span when I was the District Director for H & R Block from '69~76.

I was referring to IRS, actually. Several years ago I took some deduction (that I don't exactly recall now) and I got a letter asking to furnish an itemization of the expenses. I called the IRS and asked if I should send the associated receipts also, and response I got was that if receipts were not asked for then don't send them, but be prepared to furnish them if asked.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's the same with ICA. If you put it on your application, be prepared to verify it with black & white as the saying goes. You don't need to give it to them but you best have it available if requested. However, normally in better times before the 2011 GE (not the current one) if you could document your highest degree it was usually sufficient. Not always true today, what with so many fraudulent and/or paper mill docs turning up even in the civil service.

Point noted to always have the original documents handy for verification in case they may be required.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:What you need to worry about more is your ethnicity. You said you were Indian. I can assume you are a Native American? If not, if you are an India Indian, and are a naturalized American Citizen, you have much more to worry about than school documentation. ICA may see you as not being the stable type who will just move on in a couple of years, so why bother to give PR. And your wife, sadly, is not what would be considered high on the governments want list at the moment (However, if she were and ABC/BBC/CBC or Malaysian Chinese, it wouldn't hurt you at all. In fact, if she were Malaysian Chinese it would be a plus (and if you are not a Native American, I think you may need all the pluses you can get).

That's how I read this thread at the moment. Can you clarify my assumptions?

Well, I am an "India Indian" naturalized US citizen and my wife is a China born Chinese citizen. From my perspective, I am quite committed to staying in Singapore but would suppose the burden of proof is on me, for something that can't really be proven. I had realized from reading other threads that none of these are particularly (rather, at all) favorable, but within those boundaries, was hoping to follow the application path that had higher (relatively) chances of approval. :-k

Towards that, grateful for all the suggestions, and more particularly the time that everyone took to type them out.

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 6:46 am

Good luck to you.

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby ancientmariner » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 7:35 am

M n


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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 9:32 am

... (although I hope I don't need my high school certificate because I don't where it is).


Here's the news.

A colleague of mine went to ICA to submit documents for SC, having been a PR here for more than 10 years

he was asked to produce his Higher +2 scores (A Levels ? ) :P

You say what ? :D I know it is SC, but, what stops ICA from asking same for PR ?

We were thinking that ICA wants to know if he cleared +2 to have properly enrolled in the 'good' university

General thinking says, once you get a degree, anything below is not that important. Not for ICA, as SMS pointed out, they have caught people faking their whole life to get PR here.

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:37 am

Nobody (in this thread anyway) has any disagreement about the requirement to supply educational background information. Both Forms 4 and 4A require "Educational Certificates" without much elaboration. ICA can obviously decide what they mean. In practice, according to reports, sometimes ICA wants secondary school/high school-related information, sometimes not. I don't think Homer is concerned about this.

Homer expressed concern about what Form 4 doesn't ask for compared to Form 4A. I'm not concerned and would reiterate my advice to volunteer additional information "only for something truly exceptional and outstanding that is not otherwise reflected in the application."

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:24 am

BBCWatcher wrote:Nobody (in this thread anyway) has any disagreement about the requirement to supply educational background information


In case you are not sure, I am not disputing you ...

I was responding to this, in my last post : although I hope I don't need my high school certificate because I don't where it is).

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 1:41 pm

So one reasonable approach in the circumstances is to make a reasonable effort to obtain a high school transcript or graduate certificate of some kind. If you cannot obtain it, so be it -- you go to your appointment with what you have. If you do have that certificate, and if ICA doesn't ask for it, I wouldn't volunteer it unless it's your most advanced educational credential.

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 27 Oct 2015 3:02 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:So one reasonable approach in the circumstances is to make a reasonable effort to obtain a high school transcript or graduate certificate of some kind. If you cannot obtain it, so be it -- you go to your appointment with what you have. If you do have that certificate, and if ICA doesn't ask for it, I wouldn't volunteer it unless it's your most advanced educational credential.


Agreed, you are 100% correct.

Are you are a lawyer by any chance ?

I am sure you spent too much time in Asia, and such words like "Reasonable Effort" etc - don't fly in Asia !

No have document ? oh, come back another day. When can I come back ? Oh, how about Next year ?

But I do agree again, just tell ICA you have exhausted all Reasonable Efforts !!

Or even better, tell them you won't give it because you can't find it. heck, don't even bother about it anymore :) :)

Just do what your heart tells you to do !!

Peace !!!

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 28 Oct 2015 7:56 am

Of course ICA can reject an application for whatever reason or no reason at all. But it's also true that an applicant simply may not have a high school certificate to provide. "You do the best you can," and if the best is not good enough to submit an application, then you don't submit an application.

Going into an application I do not recommend embarking on the equivalent of a solo Antarctic expedition to obtain a high school certificate. Take reasonable measures to obtain that certificate, not unreasonable ones. If ICA is still not satisfied, cross that bridge if/when you get there. This is not a radical notion.

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby homer_shenzhen » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 8:42 am

Thanks everyone for their input. I'll be giving it a try under Family Ties. Another basic question then, while logging in to book an e-appointment at the ICA site, I would log in with my own Singpass/FIN rather than sponsor's (wife's) NRIC, right?

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 8:59 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I didn't realize my REP expires on 4 Jan 2016. So, it took all of 5 minutes to renew it. Done and dusted for another 5 years. ;-)

Thanks for the reminder, squirrel! :-)


Mine expires in 2017... also a 10 year one. Glad to see you had no problem renewing it.
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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 1:01 pm

Yes, that's correct, Homer. Since you are the one applying for PR you would make the appointment under your FIN.

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Re: PR application under PTS or Family Ties

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:12 pm

PNGMK wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:I didn't realize my REP expires on 4 Jan 2016. So, it took all of 5 minutes to renew it. Done and dusted for another 5 years. ;-)

Thanks for the reminder, squirrel! :-)


Mine expires in 2017... also a 10 year one. Glad to see you had no problem renewing it.


SMS - I bet your new REP expires in the month you renewed and not in Jan... happened to me... lost about 3 months with early online renewal.


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