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Rejected Oct 2015

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
skp
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Rejected Oct 2015

Postby skp » Fri, 09 Oct 2015 7:57 am

Hello everyone,

Just thought of sharing a result if it may help the readers here and also looking for feedback, thoughts and comments.

Applied: July 23 2015
Rejection Letter: 8th Oct 2015

Profile: Indian, 32, married, one son, living in Singapore for 4 years now.
Education/Profession: Both Masters from India, working in IT (9k+3.5K) in the same company. Wife working only from the last year though, on DP/LOC.

Other things that I highlighted as part of application to stand a good chance:
1) Mandarin certification from NTU CI
2) Certificate courses from SP
3) SINDA volunteering for over a year
4) SINDA and Community Chest contributions for over a year from both
5) Other online certifications / training undergone in the last one year

To keep my financial profile good, I maintain a healthy account balance and in addition to that, have long running investments here in Singapore in terms of policies, gold investments and SGX shares.

My credit rating is AA and no liabilities at any point in time and have been a law abiding resident. Living in the same address for 3 years and haven't changed houses or shared my living space with anyone else. I haven't stopped any of the above mentioned contributions since I have been doing so for years and will continue to do so.

A bit dejected to know the outcome esp. since it came too soon and the response did not quote a timeline to reapply so going with the forum observations , its the "kiss of death" response.

Unsure, if an appeal would be fruitful. Looking for thoughts and suggestions.

I am not a pretentious wannabe and did a genuine attempt to request for PR.

Thanks,

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby the lynx » Fri, 09 Oct 2015 9:21 am

skp wrote:Hello everyone,

Just thought of sharing a result if it may help the readers here and also looking for feedback, thoughts and comments.

Applied: July 23 2015
Rejection Letter: 8th Oct 2015

Profile: Indian, 32, married, one son, living in Singapore for 4 years now.
Education/Profession: Both Masters from India, working in IT (9k+3.5K) in the same company. Wife working only from the last year though, on DP/LOC.

Other things that I highlighted as part of application to stand a good chance:
1) Mandarin certification from NTU CI
2) Certificate courses from SP
3) SINDA volunteering for over a year
4) SINDA and Community Chest contributions for over a year from both
5) Other online certifications / training undergone in the last one year

To keep my financial profile good, I maintain a healthy account balance and in addition to that, have long running investments here in Singapore in terms of policies, gold investments and SGX shares.

My credit rating is AA and no liabilities at any point in time and have been a law abiding resident. Living in the same address for 3 years and haven't changed houses or shared my living space with anyone else. I haven't stopped any of the above mentioned contributions since I have been doing so for years and will continue to do so.

A bit dejected to know the outcome esp. since it came too soon and the response did not quote a timeline to reapply so going with the forum observations , its the "kiss of death" response.

Unsure, if an appeal would be fruitful. Looking for thoughts and suggestions.

I am not a pretentious wannabe and did a genuine attempt to request for PR.

Thanks,


It is known that you can appeal within 6 months from your rejection letter. But nobody has ever tried that and come back here to share with us the experience and whether it worked or not. So we don't have any anecdotal example to share.

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby x9200 » Fri, 09 Oct 2015 10:23 am

...but it is not expected that the appeal will do any good if there is nothing significantly new to be added comparing to the preceding application.

The OP's week points:
- Indian,
- IT

I wonder if there is any negative impact of the OP following the typical Indian approach: volunteering, investments, deposits etc., especially with SINDA where the gov actually seems to think there are too many Indians around and they tend to stick together a bit too much.
For this whole list I would expect only the Madarin certificate may have something positive in it.

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Re: RE: Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 09 Oct 2015 10:45 am

x9200 wrote:especially with SINDA where the gov actually seems to think there are too many Indians around and they tend to stick together a bit too much.


The above is obvious and clear, if anybody follows the recent shift in focus within the Indian community, by Sinda and the likes.

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby skp » Sat, 10 Oct 2015 6:16 pm

Thanks for your thoughts. Agree that I did a checklist and it looks too obvious, but, I believe if at least this wasn't done, it wouldn't do justice to an application to the govt. The fact that my application was rejected in just over 2 months without an option to re-apply was like a "slap on the cheek".

It's unfortunate to see that Indians in IT are unwelcome. I would like to share my thoughts on some that are highlighted in your replies.

For a migrated Indian, esp. in the Singapore setup, I believe SINDA is a better choice for some of the programs they are running. For e.g., I am volunteering in two programs of which one is a field work which needs some level of persistence and patience to get the relevant information which eventually goes to MOE and another one which involves teaching kids. These programs if done for a long time is a strong indication of an individual's commitment to this place and understanding of the culture here.

I do agree that monetary contributions may not look that good compared to physical volunteering be it any amount.

If I go all out and do volunteering in an other race organization, I believe that would look pretentious and a wannabe.

And, in my case, in the last 4 years, I have faced a few incidents that were either "stereotypification" or "displeasure". On a self-introspection, I felt, learning one of the languages would be good way to show appreciation of the culture here and hence my mandarin learning. That did have its positive impacts in the last 6 months. Speaking the language and appreciating the food are two good ways to show good intentions and willingness to soak into the culture of the land.

The fact that there is no transparency and no interviews in the application process to express the desire in a genuine way hurts for those who get rejected.

For people who have a family and in a situation like me, post-rejection options are just to save money and leave, but, that would look mean and selfish too. So, just have to take happiness with the fact that, we have done some contributions to the society we have lived in.

Indians in IT - Have to get Bangalore-ed or march towards the valley in hopes of a better life.

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:02 pm

Singapore PR is given based on who you are, rather than what you do. So after reading your post atleast, prospective PR applicants should not bother to do anything different from what they would otherwise do.



You did all the right things but the mistake you did is you made it very apparent that you knew that doing all these would get you the "points". If you really want to game the system, atleast you should be subtle enough to not mention it in your application but let them find it out, themselves.

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Re: RE: Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:39 am

Wd40 wrote:Singapore PR is given based on who you are, rather than what you do.


Singapore used to consider applicants based on what they did, till the new residents started to throw their weight around, to the extent of making the previous arrivals feel threatened. Just saying.

As for Indian IT fellows not welcome, I will say no, its not true. It's just Singapore has become more choosy for selecting Indian + IT combination - if there is one such classification. And when they have way too many to choose from, unlike before, well, they are spoilt for choices.

And I doubt ICA cares about it, but years ago quite a few Sub cons openly detested Singapore, and all things Singapore and made it clear that this country has no hope, no future and no life. And now when there is a U turn in opinion, it's a bit tough to convince the natives ootherwise..and such natives are also possibly sitting in ICA.

Just saying so.

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:54 am

Throw their weight around, where? In the forums? If you go by what is going on in the forums, then PAP should have lost the elections this time. :)

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Re: RE: Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 11 Oct 2015 12:36 pm

Wd40 wrote:Throw their weight around, where? In the forums? If you go by what is going on in the forums, then PAP should have lost the elections this time. :)

Ok, as I said before, you need to have more local friends, get engaged in the community, to understand what I meant.

At the minimum eat with the locals and have a drink with the locals, than having everything around a little India for new arrival Indians from India

And here I am not talking about opinion on forums ;)

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby mss123 » Sun, 11 Oct 2015 9:46 pm

@SKP- did you submit any references? either from your company or local MP?

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby skp » Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:54 pm

@mss123 - I did. One from the SVP, Technology of the company. I dont think that would have mattered anyway!

On the other replies above - I do have local friends and have spent considerable time with them, but, haven't really observed an unpleasant thought any time. These are from experiences while eating out, inviting each other for dinners, having a few drinks etc... Over the years we have had significant exchanges on culture, food and lifestyle and I was quite surprised there was a gap in how Indian-ness has been perceived. And, for me, it was the same on how I had perceived SEA before I came here. The best I could do was to represent myself and my identify in the best way I could, to change it and I am sure my local friends now have that better picture.

I hope with time, things are perceived for good. I have put the drop to form the ocean, it depends on how the sun shines and how the wind blows from here on.

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Re: RE: Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 12 Oct 2015 1:41 am

skp wrote:On the other replies above - I do have local friends and have spent considerable time with them,...


My reply was specifically towards wd40 ;).

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 12 Oct 2015 8:18 am

OP - sorry for the news. It's not your fault specifically; we know the statistics are not in your favour.
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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby x9200 » Mon, 12 Oct 2015 8:41 am

Wd40 wrote:Singapore PR is given based on who you are, rather than what you do. So after reading your post atleast, prospective PR applicants should not bother to do anything different from what they would otherwise do.



You did all the right things but the mistake you did is you made it very apparent that you knew that doing all these would get you the "points". If you really want to game the system, atleast you should be subtle enough to not mention it in your application but let them find it out, themselves.

I would fully agree with you but I am also having some thoughts how neutral/positive/negative it really is based on the local culture. What I mean, if I see a big company* paying probably million dollars for tv ads where they show a local, Indian guy riding a mopped, and the company just advertised that they helped people like him and all in the context of their products. For me, this is gross, yet apparently must be perceived well in Singapore. Or somebody made a huge mistake?

*) I believe it was Caltex few years ago

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Re: Rejected Oct 2015

Postby JR8 » Mon, 12 Oct 2015 2:45 pm

x9200 wrote:I would fully agree with you but I am also having some thoughts how neutral/positive/negative it really is based on the local culture. What I mean, if I see a big company* paying probably million dollars for tv ads where they show a local, Indian guy riding a mopped, and the company just advertised that they helped people like him and all in the context of their products. For me, this is gross, yet apparently must be perceived well in Singapore. Or somebody made a huge mistake?
*) I believe it was Caltex few years ago


It goes back to the nature of, the 'true meaning' of charity. Something we have of course discussed before.True charity, seeks nor gets any 'return'. That return at the basest level is a feel-good moment. Using it to puff up supposed personal '''self-less''' virtue on a visa application is a higher level, and more than negates any value at all IMHO.The latter is contradictory, selfish, cynical, and entirely misses the point.

It might be simply better to make a material financial donation to charity, and then not mentioning it where it might be considered as seeking advantage (visa applications etc). Cash is what charities need, rather than disinterested untrained people hanging around who are too often seeking brief personal advantage.
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