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zzm9980
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 9:33 am

calugaruvaxile is right Raj, none of the politicians have our best interests at heart. Just those of special interests. I actually trust Donald to be more sincere than any other serious candidate (and by that I mean candidate with more than a 5% chance of winning, not their own sincerity at being serious).

I just don't agree with his view on a few issues. In particular Immigration and Vaccination. I'm not sure what Aragorn hinted at in his comment above, but the quotes I saw seem really hard to take out of context.

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 9:57 am

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Aragorn2000 » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:19 am

zzm9980 wrote:calugaruvaxile is right Raj, none of the politicians have our best interests at heart. Just those of special interests. I actually trust Donald to be more sincere than any other serious candidate (and by that I mean candidate with more than a 5% chance of winning, not their own sincerity at being serious).

I just don't agree with his view on a few issues. In particular Immigration and Vaccination. I'm not sure what Aragorn hinted at in his comment above, but the quotes I saw seem really hard to take out of context.


What Donald Trump said in the debate was that "he is not against vaccination. He wants to spread out the number of injections over time". Ben Carson seems to agree with that too.

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby x9200 » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:52 am

nakatago wrote:In all seriousness, the Donald isn't fit to be in a position that requires finesse as he's too brash. If you want to tap into his business acumen, then put him in charge of the economy rather than diplomacy.

I think it's hard to tell. This how he behaves in the domestic debates not necessarily will translate to any international ground.... assuming he is not an idiot.

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby nakatago » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:54 am


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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:13 am

Aragorn2000 wrote:What Donald Trump said in the debate was that "he is not against vaccination. He wants to spread out the number of injections over time". Ben Carson seems to agree with that too.


Which is truly a bullshit stance on the parts of both Trump and cabin boy Carson. Medical professionals universally denounced these idiots.

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:23 am

JR8 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
JR8 wrote:Gawd help us all if the US votes in a socialist president. ...As if Yellen at the Fed isn't already causing enough chaos...

Really depends upon what you mean by "socialism". [etc]


I'd have thought it matters far more how Sanders defines Socialism.
Your list is a strawman, not least since the suggested facilities exist in multitudes of countries that aren't and have never been socialist. As you well know :wink: In fact IME the reverse is true, such things tend to be lacking in countries that are socialist.

Here, you'll enjoy this 8-) :cool:
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/heres ... verything/
'Here’s Why Bernie Sanders is Wrong About Everything'


Once again, the libertarian voice is all about ideology, with very little to do with reality. I like libertarian principles, and, they must be considered in light of pragmatic policy. Libertarian religion suggests that Ayn Rand's version of capitalism and entrepreneurship is the end all, be all, that everything can be solved by self interested capitalists. The real world is far removed from that ideal.

But, that's not why I write. My list is not a strawman, for what Sanders defines as 'democratic socialism' is something akin to what is found in Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway.

Traditional socialism definitions state that the 'means of production are held by the state'... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

But, that's not what Bernie is proposing at all. What he is proposing is the 'strawman' list I presented... universal healthcare, a single payer system that removes the profit from healthcare insurance. I can't see why this is a bad idea. It in no way hampers competition in the healthcare market, it does provide a big hammer to control healthcare costs, and in particular, doctor owned fee for services companies that are running rampant.

Bernie supports progressive taxation, at rates substantially higher than they are now. I'm good with that.

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby JR8 » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 3:12 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:I see him a sneaky person with vested interests, a person who will not care for the well being of the American public. The only people who would be interested in seeing his rise would be corporations and business men.


Consider Clinton, he was up to his neck self-interested projects that enriched him.
For example dealings with one Tony Rezko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Rezko
Obama had or has dealings with Rezko too, you'll find the info under the 'Legal Troubles', and 'Ties to politicians' sections. Here is one snippet... ' Starting in 2003, Rezko was one of the people on Obama's U.S. Senate campaign finance committee'. And as late as 2008, and despite serving time in Federal prison... he was still one of Obama's major funders. Who would have thought a politician would have wanted to have any dealings with a character like that, but both Clinton and Obama did, the latter even gave him a job LOL!


By way of contrast, when skimming through the linked list of Trump's quotes I noticed this one...

"I give to politicians; and they give back: that's broken!" (Aug 2015)
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby JR8 » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 3:24 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Aragorn2000 wrote:What Donald Trump said in the debate was that "he is not against vaccination. He wants to spread out the number of injections over time". Ben Carson seems to agree with that too.


Which is truly a bullshit stance on the parts of both Trump and cabin boy Carson. Medical professionals universally denounced these idiots.


That's because said medical professional in the US have *major* political influence. The last thing they'd want to see is a treatment policy that reduced their exorbitant fees.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby JR8 » Tue, 22 Sep 2015 4:03 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:Traditional socialism definitions state that the 'means of production are held by the state'... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

But, that's not what Bernie is proposing at all. What he is proposing is the 'strawman' list I presented... universal healthcare, a single payer system that removes the profit from healthcare insurance. I can't see why this is a bad idea. It in no way hampers competition in the healthcare market, it does provide a big hammer to control healthcare costs, and in particular, doctor owned fee for services companies that are running rampant.

Bernie supports progressive taxation, at rates substantially higher than they are now. I'm good with that.


That's 'traditional' socialism but it's very well proven by now that such state ownership consigns an economy to the basket-case league.

Socialism these days seems to have to try and achieve it's end-goals more subtly, which invariably involves a lot of bare-faced lying from socialist politicians.

You mention Scandinavia, which happens to be a region I know well. Have you seen what the cost of living is in those countries? It's eye-watering. Numbeo puts the cost of living in Oslo at +20% over Singapore, and that's despite the price of an apartment in Oslo being c60% less. Take out the big land/property line item, and Oslo might easily be double or triple the SGn COL, as a tourist it certainly is. That is what happens under 'progressive socialism' it has to be paid for, which is why those countries have boggling income-tax rates. How would you feel, just a member of the typical working middle class, paying 75% income tax?

During the 70's the UK went through a period under a a couple of socialist governments. Many of the stated goals were similar to what Sanders is advocating. UK tax rates rapidly rose to Norwegian levels*, and it triggered what was and is known as 'The Brain Drain'. A lot of higher earners simply exited the UK, with many of them heading to the friendlier shores of the US. Many of them never returned either; a permanent loss, akin to sending a conscripted army, that includes the most economically productive citizens, off to be killed in some great war.
Mebbe if Sanders were elected some of the '70s departees might decide to up sticks and return 'home' ;)

* I remember one of the govt ministers (if not the PM himself) at the time stating that the governments intention was to 'Tax them [the citizenry, excl the working classes] until their pips squeak'.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:20 am


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Re: Donald Trump

Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:45 pm

Donald Trump is at it again. With his bold proposals. Can't wait for him to become the President :P .

http://news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-want ... 20597.html

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 04 Feb 2016 2:50 pm

Moderate and thoughtful. He seems to be the most qualified but alas not so much for the masses. This business called politics.

"That's why Bush, the guy who was supposed to win, is losing. Even if he does somehow negative-ad his way to the presidency, he's doomed to fail because he doesn't understand the theater of that office."

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 11 Mar 2016 6:20 pm

Seems like both races are going down to the wire :D
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby marc.favroo » Thu, 24 Mar 2016 5:52 am

I honestly think Trump has a decent chance vs Hilary...a lot higher than markets/media is giving him credit for...I think he is incredibly popular among while males (and there are plenty of those) and if he manages to make them vote (they have the highest vote rate anyway) he will definately give a run for Hilary's money...


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