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sg employment down, foreigners ... up

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Barnsley
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Re: sg employment down, foreigners ... up

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:59 am

AndrewV wrote:
kaseyma wrote:I don't think that dual citizenship will make a difference for Singaporeans.
Many are giving up their American citizenship and the burdensome tax and FATCA procedures that come with it.

Unless you are very wealthy, retiring in America will be difficult. Most will probably aim for a place which has free healthcare.

I am not condoning the abuse of the system (in fact I think it is wrong to do this), what I am saying is that, from a government known for it's shrewd handling of liability and cost, why are they not considering handing off the old-age problem to another country. Dual citizenship would allow the old folk to be another countries problem. so Singapore could get the maximum out of these people while they are in their economically productive years, and then have them be someone else's problem while they are old.

The defence argument may not hold as even Israel allows dual citizenship.

Again, I am looking at it from the point of view of a number crunching, liability minimising entity.


Wait til Johor secede from the Malaysia Federation ....

Job done for Sing Govt , they will be punting old folks over there like its going out of style.
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Re: sg employment down, foreigners ... up

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:03 pm

The are already doing this. Take long time PR's like myself. Now that they have milked the cow dry, and the cow's all used up, they are taking away all the subsidies from the PR's at the time when we are likely to start needing them (medical subsidies for instance). This is driving up costs for retirees who may have not needed medical often and then when they do need it, it becomes overly expensive as compared to what they would have had to pay a few years earlier.

Of course, today, I doubt very seriously that I'd even be considered for Citizenship at 68. My son's done his NS and my daughter is giving birth to a son in the next 4 weeks so they've really milked the cow dry and really don't need/want another old coot taking up space on the Red Dot.

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Re: sg employment down, foreigners ... up

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 20 Oct 2015 2:35 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The are already doing this. Take long time PR's like myself. Now that they have milked the cow dry, and the cow's all used up, they are taking away all the subsidies from the PR's at the time when we are likely to start needing them (medical subsidies for instance). This is driving up costs for retirees who may have not needed medical often and then when they do need it, it becomes overly expensive as compared to what they would have had to pay a few years earlier.

Of course, today, I doubt very seriously that I'd even be considered for Citizenship at 68. My son's done his NS and my daughter is giving birth to a son in the next 4 weeks so they've really milked the cow dry and really don't need/want another old coot taking up space on the Red Dot.


In all seriousness , what do you think will happen to the long term PR folks?

Do you think they will eventually revoke the PR status of those that never took up citizenship?

Do you think the Govt will eventually stop all CPF withdrawal for PR folks?
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Re: sg employment down, foreigners ... up

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:49 am

Stop CPF withdrawal, I doubt it. They'd end up in an international court if they did. If Singaporeans can get their CPF returned if they immigrate and give up their SC then there is no way that I could see a legal course of action to try to retain the CPF of PRs. Now, cutting out CPF for PRs is an option, though. when I first came here back in the early 80's, EPs had to pay into CPF as well, but as they were only here for short terms (e.g. a couple of years) it didn't make sense so that was rescinded in the late 80's if I remember correctly.

Yes, I believe they will eventually revoke the PR status or at least refuse to renew the REP (so that the first time you go to JB or Batam, your PR is pffft!) Same thing really. However, if you received your PR via the family ties scheme, there may be an allowance made there, but I could see that blowing up in their faces as well, especially if they were allowed to stay as long as they were still married to the local spouse. What happens if the local spouse passes away? How about if they have children (minor? adult?) who have SC? I would have taken up SC years ago had they let me continue to hold dual citizenship. But we all the 1st world countries in the world allow dual/multiple citizenships, Sillypore will continue to be viewed as only a developing country and not a developed country. Dual citizenship would create a reverse brain drain if they allowed it. As it is now, they force their citizens to make a choice instead of allowing them to work overseas for 5 or 10 years and then bringing back their knowledge & expertise to Singapore.

Good question, Barnsley. I really don't know. But it looks like I might be finding out in a couple of years if I retire.

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Re: sg employment down, foreigners ... up

Postby AndrewV » Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:17 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Stop CPF withdrawal, I doubt it. They'd end up in an international court if they did. If Singaporeans can get their CPF returned if they immigrate and give up their SC then there is no way that I could see a legal course of action to try to retain the CPF of PRs. Now, cutting out CPF for PRs is an option, though. when I first came here back in the early 80's, EPs had to pay into CPF as well, but as they were only here for short terms (e.g. a couple of years) it didn't make sense so that was rescinded in the late 80's if I remember correctly.

Yes, I believe they will eventually revoke the PR status or at least refuse to renew the REP (so that the first time you go to JB or Batam, your PR is pffft!) Same thing really. However, if you received your PR via the family ties scheme, there may be an allowance made there, but I could see that blowing up in their faces as well, especially if they were allowed to stay as long as they were still married to the local spouse. What happens if the local spouse passes away? How about if they have children (minor? adult?) who have SC? I would have taken up SC years ago had they let me continue to hold dual citizenship. But we all the 1st world countries in the world allow dual/multiple citizenships, Sillypore will continue to be viewed as only a developing country and not a developed country. Dual citizenship would create a reverse brain drain if they allowed it. As it is now, they force their citizens to make a choice instead of allowing them to work overseas for 5 or 10 years and then bringing back their knowledge & expertise to Singapore.

Good question, Barnsley. I really don't know. But it looks like I might be finding out in a couple of years if I retire.


many good points here SMS. I seriously think the government needs to relook at dual citizenship. Seems like a win-win but maybe the government is apprehensive due to a subset of the current citizens who do not have the opportunity to acquire a second citizenship getting upset. The reverse brain drain will cause an immediate positive impact


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