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Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 1:13 pm

JR8 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote: and if the opposition wins


Exaggerating any vulnerability just a leeetle bit there? :lol:


With the complete naivety of the electorate, the chance of a fluke election result here is very likely as most here want to vote against the PAP if only to signal their displeasure with what it "thinks" is high-handedness by the PAP. Most don't realize that the more they talk amongst themselves, the better chance that has of happening as they don't realize that they have absolutely no control against a fluke election result being handed down solely due to voting out of spite. The odds are against this happening but it's not outside the realm of possibility, considering the immaturity of the voting electorate. There are a lot of people here who are middle aged or older who have never voted in their lives only because they have lived in walk-over wards their entire lives. They could be disgruntled and angry voters. There is no way of knowing. This election will be the first time in Singapore recent history that all precincts will be contested. Dog help us if it were to become necessary to have a coalition government. There has never been a successful one anywhere in Asia in all it's history.

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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 4:43 pm

You're quite right MJ, Farage was ousted (quite unexpected), and Carswell is their sole MP.

p.s. The latter seems like a sound-enough chap, in a 'telling it as it is/no bull' kind of way; most unusual from a politician (the only other example I can think of is Daniel Hannan).
Which reminds me that DC's blog can be a useful read if you want an intelligent and straight-forward take on any major political events in the UK/EU. http://talkcarswell.com/ Been a while since I last checked it...
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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 4:52 pm

@SMS. So how many MPs do you think the oppo's will see returned, based upon their own merits rather than NMPs?

Is Asia unique in being unsuited to democracy; and if so why do think this is?
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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby MikeJones » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 5:02 pm

Hmmm not wishing to nit-pick too much but Farage has never been an MP in the UK so cannot have been ousted. UKIP did have two MPs prior to the last election both Tory defectors, Carswell won his seat and the other chap whose name escapes me didn't. Farage is still an MEP (Member of the European Parliament) as he has been since 1999.

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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 5:21 pm

JR8 wrote:@SMS. So how many MPs do you think the oppo's will see returned, based upon their own merits rather than NMPs?

Is Asia unique in being unsuited to democracy; and if so why do think this is?


I reckon they will return all they currently have and I would not be surprised if they actually pick up another small GRC and a single seat. But which ones I don't know, but I do know that the smell of death hasn't reached most of the disgruntled voters so they will still vote with the emotions and not with their heads. I'd really like to see either Aljunied or Hougang returned to the PAP. Aljunied for personal reasons and Hougang or Aljunied just to show the WP that their wins were just a fluke as well, and the disgruntled are starting to see the world for what it is.

On their own merits? Zero. None have any merit as far as I can see.

I don't know if any continent is more or less unsuited to democracy. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that for an Asian country to pull ahead, they need to be lead (read that "pulled") kicking and screaming to the next level. Harry Lee was just such a person. Could it ever be duplicated? That's the magic question. I seriously doubt it (and still have a quasi-parliamentary/democratic style of governance). Of course the whole world thought Lee was taking on a sure failure so, I really don't know.

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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby Addadude » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 9:44 am

Hougang has been Low's - and by extension WP's - stronghold for years. Even when the constituency was 'punished' - sorry - wasn't yet scheduled for estate improvements as a result of who they voted for. So I don't see any danger for WP there.

Low to his credit had the testicular fortitude to leave his 'safe ward' and contest Aljunied in the last election. That was quite a risk as he could have ended up losing both wards. In the end, the PAP lost one of their better ministers.

While I know that SMS is far from happy about Aljunied being under WP, other residents I personally know of have experienced no real issues and will quite happily vote for Low again. And to be fair to WP, it does appear that the PAP did everything they could to make life as difficult as possible for them when they stepped in to take over the constituency.

The problem for Singapore is that for more than 50 years the PAP gahment have made it unmercifully hard for anyone daring to oppose them politically. As result, in so many cases the only people putting their names forward have been oddballs to say the least.

However, in the last 10 years or so, this has changed and the quality of many of the opposition candidates has improved in leaps and bounds. By contrast, PAP's selected next generation of leaders have looked like deer in the headlights. One could say this is almost Darwinian: the opposition HAD to improve in order to survive, whereas the 'chosen from primary school' PAP candidates had it pretty easy - probably too easy.

Add in the fact that powers that be seem to be increasingly distant from the everyday realities of the average Singaporean and it's easy to to see my LHL's 'natural aristocracy' (God almighty, what was he thinking of when he used that phrase?) is under threat.
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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 10:17 am

Beautiful - LKY's much loved eugenics (called social engineering in public) in action :) - in an unexpected manner and method!

"One could say this is almost Darwinian: the opposition HAD to improve in order to survive, whereas the 'chosen from primary school' PAP candidates had it pretty easy - probably too easy."
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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 10:44 am

Addadude wrote:The problem for Singapore is that for more than 50 years the PAP gahment have made it unmercifully hard for anyone daring to oppose them politically. As result, in so many cases the only people putting their names forward have been oddballs to say the least.


Well, I thought the business of politics is to keep your competition away, not to be playing musical chair

In Fact, there were supposedly some events during nomination day, where PAP had played the good guy saving the candidates of RP, and another independent's too . :D though the anti govt press says that was all planned !!

Addadude wrote:Add in the fact that powers that be seem to be increasingly distant from the everyday realities of the average Singaporean and it's easy to to see my LHL's 'natural aristocracy' (God almighty, what was he thinking of when he used that phrase?) is under threat.


Well, LHL and PAP should stop using very 'powerful' but well meaning words :D The natives, when they can't understand the words, take it that the rulers are trying to bully the less educated !

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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby Addadude » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 1:58 pm

ecureilx wrote:Well, I thought the business of politics is to keep your competition away, not to be playing musical chair


No. The business of politics is about persuading voters that their (and hopefully the nation's) interests would be best served by voting for you because of the clarity of your vision, the soundness of your policies and the quality of your people. It's NOT about 'fixing' the opposition, creating and using draconian laws to stamp down on what in any other democracy would be considered robust criticisms that can be countered in a civilised manner, 'punishing' estates who don't vote for you by withholding funds for much needed upgrading - funds that actually come from public taxation not the largesse of the governing political party - and shifting constituencies around for your party's convenience.

ecureilx wrote: In Fact, there were supposedly some events during nomination day, where PAP had played the good guy saving the candidates of RP, and another independent's too . :D though the anti govt press says that was all planned !!


Well, if I were in the PAP's shoes, I'd personally be quite happy to be competing against the Reform Party - especially since they seem to lack the competence to fill in a bloody form properly! And of course I'd be happy to let the general public know about my generosity and RP's incompetence...

ecureilx wrote:Well, LHL and PAP should stop using very 'powerful' but well meaning words :D The natives, when they can't understand the words, take it that the rulers are trying to bully the less educated !


That's the thing. The 'natives' DO understand the meaning of what he and his underlings are saying. LHL and Co are the ones who seem to miss out on how much their word choice really reveals. Singaporeans in general are much better educated now whereas in the past they were content to simply follow and obey because their political masters were assumed to be much more knowledgeable and worldly-wise. One could argue that the PAP's success (in terms of developing and educating Singaporeans) could be their downfall. With knowledge and learning comes opinions. Opinions which may run quite contrary to PAP's vision and plans.
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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby Primrose Hill » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 3:36 pm

PAP to win more than 60%? In the recent UK GE, at the end of the day Labour was decimated, rightly so, who wants to pay all these extra taxes . People tend to vote with their heads and their wallets.

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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby Barnsley » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 4:02 pm

Primrose Hill wrote:PAP to win more than 60%? In the recent UK GE, at the end of the day Labour was decimated, rightly so, who wants to pay all these extra taxes . People tend to vote with their heads and their wallets.


Well here , folk are being convinced they are being deprived of jobs by current Govt policy , I dont what is a bigger hit on wallets than that.

The Govt here seems to be completely disconnected from a vast section of the population, and don't have a clue what a lot of folk here are concerned about.

We shall see in the election!

Labour lost as they had nobody coherent enough to put across what they were trying to do.

I will wager that a vast majority of folk in the UK are reasonably happy to pay into a system that provides things like national health, which whilst not perfect by any means, strikes me as better for most than private insurance.
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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby JR8 » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 5:05 pm

Barnsley wrote:The Govt here seems to be completely disconnected from a vast section of the population, and don't have a clue what a lot of folk here are concerned about.


I've enjoyed your posts today, and agree with your observations. I was going to make several of the points you have, but sensed this kind of discussion is not welcome here. In any case you have expressed it far more eloquently than I would have, so thanks for that ;)

And to your point above. The government are disconnected because the people have a history of being terrified to speak or have opinions; at least in public. And every ballot paper is 'public' in that it's serial number thereon is x-reffed to the voters IC, and the government will certainly be sifting all that data to spot trouble looming ahead. And we have seen what happens to estates and constituencies that 'vote the wrong way'. It must be very intimidating.
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Re: Singapore Elections and Immigration Policy Changes

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 5:35 pm

JR8 wrote: And every ballot paper is 'public' in that it's serial number thereon is x-reffed to the voters IC, and the government will certainly be sifting all that data to spot trouble looming ahead. And we have seen what happens to estates and constituencies that 'vote the wrong way'. It must be very intimidating.


http://www.eld.gov.sg/voters_ballotsecrecy.html

In theory it's possible, but with the checks and the ability of all parties concerned to reseal the boxes before being stored for the 6 months, it would be highly unlikely that any sort of "ballot fixing after the fact" would take place.

The ballot paper number is still a feature of UK parliamentary and local government elections.


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