Singapore Expats Forum

Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Discuss about any latest news or current affairs in Singapore or globally. Please DO NOT copy and paste news articles from other sources without written permission.
User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10413
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:58 am

bro75 wrote:I think bonds are reasonable for external training of new less experienced employees where the cost of training is high. In highly competitive industries with low margins, many companies cannot afford to take the risk of a trained new employee flying off after just a few months of external training. What I do not agree with are bonds for on-the-job training where the "training" is actually already real work.


I'm telling you... this is the Asian attitude... and the reason there are $25 per month job hoppers. GIve a shit about your employees and they will give a shit about you.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9165
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby x9200 » Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:16 pm

bro75 wrote:I think bonds are reasonable for external training of new less experienced employees where the cost of training is high. In highly competitive industries with low margins, many companies cannot afford to take the risk of a trained new employee flying off after just a few months of external training. What I do not agree with are bonds for on-the-job training where the "training" is actually already real work.

++^ this is where I would draw the line too. Also, such real work like training should always be paid.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9278
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:32 pm

And talking about Bonds, I was attached to an MNC, with the Top management all Americans or Brits, including HR

They too had bonds, with (can't remember) courses costing below 5K, no bond, courses costing 5K to 7K- 3 months post course bond, and so and so.

Bro75, bonds for OJT ? :P

Do you know what is P2F ? :D That is Pay to Fly - becoming very prevalent in Airline industry, with candidates paying for accumulating hours

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby nakatago » Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:35 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:GIve a shit about your employees and they will give a shit about you.


Stop being so reasonable! Are you trying to turn the paradigm of human resources in Asia on it's head?

User avatar
the lynx
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5239
Joined: Thu, 09 Dec 2010
Location: Midgar

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby the lynx » Thu, 20 Aug 2015 3:22 pm

I agree to both SE and x92 to varying degrees.

Training should not be the basis of tying down an employee. But in Asia, an employee can get tied down for anything other than $1000 training. New work laptop, PR application endorsement, company travels. I know some people who decline all these things because they know they will have to sign a 1-year bond or more to be accorded with those "privileges" and it can really affect productivity at work because the more the employer tries to tie down, the more the employee resist positive change. Materialistic Asian values, that's for sure.

On the other hand, some training programmes are very resource-extensive and -intensive. Especially part-time post-graduate programmes and technical courses. The management needs to protect its resources and make sure that it is well invested. The employee is expected (and rightfully so) to use the newly-learned skills and knowledge to contribute to the company. It is not fair if an ungrateful employee takes up $100k programme, gets that prized certificate and then leaves. For this kind of training, a reasonable bond should be in place. And there's materialistic Asian values among employees too - the one that goes "take, take, take everything and go."

calugaruvaxile
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun, 08 Feb 2015

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby calugaruvaxile » Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:12 pm

this happens as there are many companies sharing a narrow market. the skillsets acquired in any of these companies can 100% fit the 1001 others in the market. this makes hopping easy, and devalue both employer and employee. and i'm not even talking about the client satisfaction

apologies, but i believe the employers are at fault. if you don't do anything to stand out of the crowd ...

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10413
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:36 pm

Bonds for training is just a form of indentured servitude. And it papers over the real reason employees leave. They don't leave because you gave them some training.

They leave because the alleged life/work balance they were promised is a joke. Put up posters celebrating family life, then have your employees on evening con calls because it's a global economy. Make sure they are on call 24 hours a day with their mobile device. Keep enforcing such tight project deadlines that 10 or 12 hour days are the only way to get things done.

They leave because the company is penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to pay, raises, and benefits. 18 to 25 percent annual turnover is the norm in many service companies because they are cheap and instead must pour resources into recruitment and training just to keep up with turnover. The good ones leave, the bad ones get promoted.

They leave because the company enforces a rigid top down hierarchy instead of fostering a collaborative environment, then promote assholes who promote more of their own. The good workers, the ones who don't wear brown lipstick, don't have a chance.

They leave because of punitive and useless annual reviews, reviews that leave incompetent people in their place, forcing the competent ones to work even harder just to keep up.

I could go on... and on... and on. Companies that retain their employees do things far differently.


User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9165
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby x9200 » Sat, 22 Aug 2015 9:13 am

Thank you EF. I read this before but forgot about it. Perfect summary of the local job market issues.

freedominland
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun, 26 Jul 2015

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby freedominland » Sat, 22 Aug 2015 11:11 am

Just curious that if every company have their quota to hire foreign employees, how these companies can employ more than ratio that been set? And if the company employed foreigner within quota, is it still need to be warned?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34265
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 22 Aug 2015 11:32 am

Don't you bother to read the newspapers? You should try. Lot's of companies are currently over quotas because 1.5 years ago, certain quotas percentages were reduced (actually several times over the past three years. Good example is the service industry. It used to be 50% of the total workforce of the company. Then 45% -> 40% -> 25% and currently it's been reduced to 15%. Obviously they don't want companies to not have the staff needed so they have given ample time to reduce their workforce or replace the foreigners with local hires. So, what has been done is they have been giving a year to reduce the FTs but instead of telling you the get rid of them, what they are doing is rejecting renewals until such time as the company is back within their given quota. This means a number of companies (like mine for instance) has been over quota for 3 years now as they keep reducing the quota and rejecting renewals. Sucks, but there you go. Try getting a local to carry a Mosquito Fogging gun around all day long in 34C heat. Won't happen. So, we just pray the people and ministers responsible for cutting our quotas, are stricken with Dengue as we cannot completely cover our contracts anymore due to the inability to acquire and keep staff. If the powers that be, are infected with dengue, maybe they will see the problem a bit more clearer. ;-)

All companies are being warned. There are quotas within quotas. You have a WP/S pass overall quota but there are subquotas for both PRCs and S pass holder within the overall quota, thereby reducing the number of, say, malaysians you can hire. Takes a bit of juggling as the quotas are computed on the previous 3 months employment records as recorded by CPF (locals) and MOM (levies).

freedominland
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun, 26 Jul 2015

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby freedominland » Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:03 pm

It quite hard for employer to fire employees who had worked for few years and if they are well fitted to the position. As per mentioned, very few locals re willing to work for low pay yet tough physical jobs. In the end, the employer need to pay more to lure local or close shop. In the end the cost ll be increased and it all go to end user due to demand more to supply. And how many locals can fit all high posts in the market? sure that offered vacancies in the market are more than number of residents who re ady work in the market. Didn't make exact comparison, Just my opinion, If government imposed the levy to foreigner in working pass that are equal cost to hire a local, then they should hv right to choose who hv better fit into the job. Instead of just quota.. Maybe no local to replace the job..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9165
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby x9200 » Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:04 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Try getting a local to carry a Mosquito Fogging gun around all day long in 34C heat. Won't happen.

Have you tried to advertise the position as a Manger for the a.egypti control for near equatorial, single, compact, airborn-targeted liquid dispensing facility.?

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:10 pm

Or senior exterminator.. Must be trigger happy.. Push buttons at will..cause ample death and destruction of airborne enemies.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34265
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Too Few Singaporeans Hired .... (Straits Times)

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 22 Aug 2015 3:58 pm

Only works for one day and then they don't show up the next morning. :-x :oops!: :shit:

We even told them they could wear a white shirt and tie and they are already carrying the multipurpose recording equipment (smartphone). But one day is about the best we can do.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Latest News & Current Affairs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests