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Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby martincymru » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 1:22 pm

That's why it is so difficult to give direction. Each and every situation is unique.
As said before, if you follow the straight line then you will not obtain relief.

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby JR8 » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 4:19 pm

martincymru wrote:In the UK being a landlord is tough. Here, it's easy.


I agree with that. In the UK there are rules and protections on either side, and they work pretty much in balance. Because a ripped off tenant has recourse, the the LL is less likely to break the rules. In SG a ripped off tenant has very little recourse, hence they are seen as ripe for the plucking; and so here we are.

ecureilx wrote:I may be on thin ice here, but I would say, being a landlord here is easy, because of naive tenants, and nope, I don't mean to say tenants should be law experts.


It depends on what you call naivety. It it means 'clever tricks', against which you have no recourse, then perhaps so. I think a major disconnect is that you expect such business in SG to be both legal and moral (discuss!?). You would expect a major agent that you have explicitly paid and agreed in a written contract to represent you, to represent you; wouldn't you? You wouldn't expect them to turn around when you need their assistance vs a landlord, and claim that they have lost all their records, as per my recent experience. As with much crime (to be clear, I'm not suggesting retaining deposits is 'criminal' in a legal nature), you do not protect against a risk that you cannot reasonably foresee. You do not buy a new home and put in Fort-Knox type security, why would you; well, not until you have been burgled a few times maybe.


ecureilx wrote:Like my example, I was laid off and was only able to find a job paying a much lesser salary, and told my landlord I gotta leave a I can't pay the rent.


I think there is a critical difference here: You were under a contractual obligation, and the LL is not under any obligation to negotiate or relinquish rights due to your changed circumstances. The issue of deposits is the reverse in fact, the LL is under a contractual obligation to return your money, but (on occasion) flips you a finger, since he knows you can't do anything about it.

ecureilx wrote:He threatened so sue me and was trying to invoke this and that


On the details given that would appear to be his right.

ecureilx wrote:told him in a legal sounding letter, when my salary is 2,000 $, can you advice how I can pay 1,500 $ as rental ? If you insist I must stay, well, you can go to court, and enforce it


He could have sought a court enforcement order etc. But this is irrelevant to the topic at hand.


ecureilx wrote:My 2 cents says, most tenants get hood winked by agents and landlords, and more often than ever, the agents will use impressive words like "we cater for expats", or "this is singapore standard" or .. "this is the norm .. " etc. etc All it takes is, just a bit of common sense and not fall for it.


So how would you suggest such people get their money back? I think the phenomenom thrives because getting it back is so hard (instructing a lawyer?), that most people can't afford to and/or give up before this first hurdle.

ecureilx wrote:And some have to learn the lessons the hard way ..


As does the person who has his home burgled repeatedly.

ecureilx wrote:As in the cases where I felt the landlord was trying to pull a fast one, I avoided paying the last month rental, and where the landlord disputed facts, told him off. And at most, paid half month, and if the landlord tried to be funny, told him to go to court to claim the damages- none I know ever did that, knowing that it will be a losing fight for them. The issue I see here is OP is having learning the hard way.


IMHO that makes you no better than the dishonest landlord, you are intentionally breaking your contract. In fact if this is typical of how some tenants behave, perhaps it's not surprising some LLs behave in an equally underhand way. The fact you can have a reputable agent in the middle of all this, and have them simply walk away with a lame excuse and a shrug still surprises me. If the typical tenant had any recourse, then such an agent wouldn't dare do that.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 4:25 pm

JR8 wrote:IMHO that makes you no better than the dishonest landlord, you are intentionally breaking your contract


So Mr LL, can you let me know, what am I supposed to do when I am fired and jobless ??? or say my pay cut is massive that I can't pay my rent anymore ?? Just For argument sakes

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby x9200 » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 4:32 pm

ecureilx wrote:
JR8 wrote:IMHO that makes you no better than the dishonest landlord, you are intentionally breaking your contract


So Mr LL, can you let me know, what am I supposed to do when I am fired and jobless ??? or say my pay cut is massive that I can't pay my rent anymore ?? Just For argument sakes

Look for a new place and find a replacement tenant for the current one.

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby martincymru » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 5:07 pm

see my post "Small Claims Court".
It is relevant to this posting.

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 5:15 pm

x9200 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
JR8 wrote:IMHO that makes you no better than the dishonest landlord, you are intentionally breaking your contract


So Mr LL, can you let me know, what am I supposed to do when I am fired and jobless ??? or say my pay cut is massive that I can't pay my rent anymore ?? Just For argument sakes

Look for a new place and find a replacement tenant for the current one.


I tried both, but the LL insisted I must stay (not kidding .. ) as the rental outside had dropped

Alternate, for me to keep paying the difference .. Yep, Right, agreed

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby JR8 » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 5:24 pm

ecureilx wrote:So Mr LL, can you let me know, what am I supposed to do when I am fired and jobless ??? or say my pay cut is massive that I can't pay my rent anymore ?? Just For argument sakes


The same as when you have debts versus a credit card company, or local 'tattooed friendly money-lender'. Meet your obligations or face the consequences.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby Blessedbiatch » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 5:31 pm

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies and advices.

The LL today contacted MOM to tell on one of my housemates who about this dispute to which MOM dutifully contacted the employer to enquire more and freak out my housemate.

I therefore sent a strongly worded email to the LL:

- request for damages assessment with pictures
- offer to an amicable solution to the matter
- inform he is free to pursue the matter in accordance with Singapore law if we cannot compromise
- that Im protesting the forfeiture of the deposit for alleged sublet
- any attempt to harass/intimidate will be reported

Well LL has replied now no more negotiation and he will do the necessary recourse which is available to him under law.

Any idea what the worst that could happen now? He going to SCT or paying $200 for lawyer letter to fire off to me?

On my part what should I do? Just wait for some legal notice from LL. Or should I file a police report that I believe the LL has cheated me of the deposit?

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby x9200 » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 5:32 pm

ecureilx wrote:
x9200 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:So Mr LL, can you let me know, what am I supposed to do when I am fired and jobless ??? or say my pay cut is massive that I can't pay my rent anymore ?? Just For argument sakes

Look for a new place and find a replacement tenant for the current one.


I tried both, but the LL insisted I must stay (not kidding .. ) as the rental outside had dropped

Alternate, for me to keep paying the difference .. Yep, Right, agreed

Not sure how to interpret the last line, but yes, you should pay the difference. This is a very fair deal.
Basically, you should compensate the LL for all the expenses he incurred as a result of your action. Your employment misfortune is not the LL's fault or he has something to do with it?

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby JR8 » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 5:44 pm

Ecu seems to inhabit a parallel world to my own one: :twisted:

One in which
a) you claim your personal circumstances have changed, and hence are relieved of any contractual obligations you were under.
b) one in which if rents in the market drop, you can rip up your TA and are entitled to a replacement with a lower rent too.*

* presumably in this land of consumer convenience rents don't reset upwards when the market is rising? No no, in such circumstances a contract is a contract and the LL must honour it :lol:
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 5:53 pm

JR8 wrote:a) you claim your personal circumstances have changed, and hence are relieved of any contractual obligations you were under.
b) one in which if rents in the market drop, you can rip up your TA and are entitled to a replacement with a lower rent too.*


I was not making it up when I was fired and had to settle for a lower paying job, temporary. And there was no intention to short change the LL

It was an open ended question, so what should I have done, in that case, when I have a stubborn landlord who insisted I must stay on and pay the rental. Just hoping for a fair answer

x9200: keep paying the difference ? well, why didn't I find the idea nice then ? Will think about it, if I am every again in the same situation .. On the other hand, maybe when rentals drop, the LLs should compensate back to the tenants the difference in the rentals, especially when the Rentals have dived by 50 % in some cases.

Blessedbiatch wrote:On my part what should I do? Just wait for some legal notice from LL. Or should I file a police report that I believe the LL has cheated me of the deposit?


I would suggest, if you can afford it, get a lawyers' letter demanding 1) Cost of damages and estimated repair costs, and 2) failing proper furnishing of proper costs, return of deposit and 3) if the employer is contacted for any reason, you will approach Magistrates' court for harassment

If you can afford the cost, go for it. Nope, I am not a lawyer, but that's my opinion. Maybe the LL members here can advice :D (no pun intended ;) )

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby Nihility » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 6:48 pm

The majority of these stories of LL vs Tenant could be avoided with a first world Rental Tenancy Bond Authority that holds the damn bond instead of all these narcissistic psycho's.

As a landlord of multiple properties back home, and renting here in Singapore, I am aghast at how the system is completely stacked in the LL's favour.

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby x9200 » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 7:02 pm

ecureilx wrote:x9200: keep paying the difference ? well, why didn't I find the idea nice then ?

Because this was you who had to pay I suppose (to put it the most nice and euphemistic way I can). You are a nice guy ecureilx but this is already another case when you demonstrate some really uneasy to accept mentality. I am one step away from saying, if there are more guys around with this sort of attitude than no wonder some LLs take any opportunity to *beeep* the tenants.

ecureilx wrote:Will think about it, if I am every again in the same situation .. On the other hand, maybe when rentals drop, the LLs should compensate back to the tenants the difference in the rentals, especially when the Rentals have dived by 50 % in some cases.

Yes, sure he should if he was the one who intended to brake the contract. Unfortunately it was you.

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 7:53 pm

Nihility wrote:As a landlord of multiple properties back home, and renting here in Singapore, I am aghast at how the system is completely stacked in the LL's favour.


That sums up the issue well I guess

x9200: I guess you missed my point, but ..

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Re: Landlord Refusing to Return Depoist and Extorting for More

Postby JR8 » Wed, 12 Aug 2015 8:47 pm

ecureilx wrote:I guess you missed my point, but ..


Have you considered that as an epitaph? :wink:
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard


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