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ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby Wd40 » Fri, 24 Jul 2015 9:42 pm

In my opinion, all those jobs that had to move have already moved. i.e. low hanging fruits. Those global companies which have multiple offices. Especially in low cost centres like India.

What you have remaining now are essentially local companies that are hesitant to outsourcing or some of the stronger MNCs. My experience is primarily with banks. So I know for a fact that some of the weaker global banks like Credit Suisse, UBS, SC, Barclays have already cut their meat of staff. Now essentially the bank jobs available these days are DBS, OCBC and the stronger global banks like Citi and JP Morgan.

But then just look at the model followed in these 4 banks. Essentially they follow the managed services model. i.e. they outsource it to Indian software houses like TCS, Infy, Wipro etc which have their own development centres in Singapore and they bring truck load of Indians here to work on their projects.

So there are only 2 choices either jobs go to India or Indians come here to work. There is no other way.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:33 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
AndrewV wrote:what you say maybe true, but how do you explain the fact that Singapore is eternally short of office space (even with so many new developments coming on board)? :-k


Is that a quantifiable fact? I have a friend in commercial real estate who tells me otherwise.


The real quantifiable fact is that demand for office space is slacking off, and sooner or later that is going to be reflected in rents. A 2.6 percent reduction in rentals is a BIG drop (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... 04780.html), and it's only going to continue.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:00 pm

Wd40 wrote:In my opinion, all those jobs that had to move have already moved. i.e. low hanging fruits. Those global companies which have multiple offices. Especially in low cost centres like India.

What you have remaining now are essentially local companies that are hesitant to outsourcing or some of the stronger MNCs. My experience is primarily with banks. So I know for a fact that some of the weaker global banks like Credit Suisse, UBS, SC, Barclays have already cut their meat of staff. Now essentially the bank jobs available these days are DBS, OCBC and the stronger global banks like Citi and JP Morgan.

But then just look at the model followed in these 4 banks. Essentially they follow the managed services model. i.e. they outsource it to Indian software houses like TCS, Infy, Wipro etc which have their own development centres in Singapore and they bring truck load of Indians here to work on their projects.

So there are only 2 choices either jobs go to India or Indians come here to work. There is no other way.


What you have seen is just the beginning. It's happening in spades in the USA right now. Sure, IT managed services was the first to succumb, what with remote access and the ability to replace onsite techs with delivery boys.

And, as I've stated before, it's happening in lower level back office functions... HR, payroll, invoicing and payables.

Outsourcing is moving up the food chain. X-ray's, cat scans, and other medical tests, now all recorded digitally, are being sent overseas so that cheaper techs can analyze the results.

Accountants are now being displaced along with the bookkeepers they didn't care about as audits, financial statements, and annual reports are outsourced. Lawyers are being displaced as the mounds of boilerplate crap they work on is outsourced. None of these people used to care about outsourcing but now they all have brown stains in their pants as they realize they are going to be whacked as well.

The USA is very large, and such disruptions in labor roles can be dealt with. Singapore does not have this luxury. Singapore is desperately trying to hang onto its manufacturing base, especially in the electronics industries, but layoffs continue to occur, and they biggest worry of laid off workers is, "What is there? What am I going to retrain for?"

So... Singapore is hemorrhaging decent paying blue collar skilled jobs. The gahmen sees there are not other blue collar jobs these employees can move to. So it implements a policy "up the food chain"... trying to become competitive higher up an industrial vertical... design, finance, marketing, distribution... and hopes by squeezing the nuts of the MNC's doing the hiring by increasing minimum salaries and qualifications, and decreasing the number of permits allowed, that the companies will hire locals for these positions.

But, that's not how it works. MNC's don't say, "Hey, let's bring in ole Sven from Denmark" because they like paying 3 times the local rate, they do it because they cannot find someone with the depth of understanding and breadth of control to take on a higher level position.

There are, of course, local Singaporeans, who are well qualified but they are few and far between. One was nicknamed the "Dragon Lady" because she would tear new assholes in all the Chinese guys in the room... "Your attitude is not about Chinese culture and the Asian way of doing things," she would say, "It's about you don't want to take responsibility for your job, you want someone else to make the hard decisions, and you want someone else to do the work." And for the most part, she was and is, spot on! I have a lot of respect for that woman.

I love Singapore and I fear it is digging itself into a very deep hole. We've got a population that thinks it can get rich simply by investing in ever rising property values, and yet, there's a very real possibility that the gahmen won't be able to stop a crash.

We've got a population with an entitlement complex and workers who want to be managers, and by "manager" they mean they want to hand work off to someone else, so you end up with a giant circle jerk of everyone trying to hand off everything to everyone else. It takes FOREVER to get shit done in a Singapore office... even worse in KL.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:25 pm

^^^ What he said! Excellent, SE.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby komatineni » Sat, 25 Jul 2015 6:42 am

We've got a population with an entitlement complex and workers who want to be managers, and by "manager" they mean they want to hand work off to someone else, so you end up with a giant circle jerk of everyone trying to hand off everything to everyone else.

This is the real challenge. In addition the culture makes a huge role with 'titles' too. So engineer after 5 years is not a good thing. Everyone wants to be a manager, director. That's how driver becoming captain, cleaner changing to CGA (clean & green ambassador) :-k

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 25 Jul 2015 12:50 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
AndrewV wrote:what you say maybe true, but how do you explain the fact that Singapore is eternally short of office space (even with so many new developments coming on board)? :-k


Is that a quantifiable fact? I have a friend in commercial real estate who tells me otherwise.


The real quantifiable fact is that demand for office space is slacking off, and sooner or later that is going to be reflected in rents. A 2.6 percent reduction in rentals is a BIG drop (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... 04780.html), and it's only going to continue.


Yes, This is true. In the Marina bay area so many new developments are coming on stream like the Capita Green and attracting tenants from existing companies with lower rents.

http://www.todayonline.com/business/bhp ... bay-source

Also Marina one construction is in full swing:
http://sbr.com.sg/commercial-property/n ... lable-2015

Everyone likes new offices. Some of the older offices in the Raffles place area are going to fall out of favor.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 25 Jul 2015 2:19 pm

COE for cars have come off a lot.

http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/1m/coe/coeDetail.html

More evidence that Singapore is slowing.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby Strong Eagle » Sat, 25 Jul 2015 9:42 pm

Wd40 wrote:Yes, This is true. In the Marina bay area so many new developments are coming on stream like the Capita Green and attracting tenants from existing companies with lower rents.

http://www.todayonline.com/business/bhp ... bay-source

Also Marina one construction is in full swing:
http://sbr.com.sg/commercial-property/n ... lable-2015

Everyone likes new offices. Some of the older offices in the Raffles place area are going to fall out of favor.


From Today Online article: "Singapore prime office rents posted a 14 per cent gain in 2014, the strongest in Asia...". Do landlords really think companies can sustain this kind of endless increase in rent?

S$12 to S$13 per month for prime space is USD 8.75 to 9.50. Compare this to USD 5 per month for prime Manhattan office space in New York and $1 to $3 for prime office space in Houston.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 27 Jul 2015 6:24 pm

Wd40 wrote:COE for cars have come off a lot.

http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/1m/coe/coeDetail.html

More evidence that Singapore is slowing.


Incorrect......it's a sign of the 10yr COE cycle, whereby in 2004-2007 there was a bucket load of COEs introduced to the market through bad planning and an incorrect formula.

COEs on scrapped cars (myself and my colleague included in the past few months) only increases again, after this 10yr cycle, the volume of COEs in the market. It's not a sign of the economy, it's a sign of supply.
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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby calugaruvaxile » Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:17 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
We've got a population with an entitlement complex and workers who want to be managers, and by "manager" they mean they want to hand work off to someone else, so you end up with a giant circle jerk of everyone trying to hand off everything to everyone else. It takes FOREVER to get shit done in a Singapore office... even worse in KL.


oh, you deserve d drink for this :)!!

that's one of the main problems, for them "manager" means "flirt with the secretary, pass work down and cover your ass". and they believe they should have this, as companies x, y and z are "allowed" (yes, this is the term, "allowed") the "privilege" (again, this is the term) of doing business in sg.

and they really believe it. how is this possible? well, i see a significant cultural implosion in most on my sg friends. they are less and less aware and interested by anything non-sgporean. except apple products.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby calugaruvaxile » Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:25 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
From Today Online article: "Singapore prime office rents posted a 14 per cent gain in 2014, the strongest in Asia...". Do landlords really think companies can sustain this kind of endless increase in rent?

S$12 to S$13 per month for prime space is USD 8.75 to 9.50. Compare this to USD 5 per month for prime Manhattan office space in New York and $1 to $3 for prime office space in Houston.


first, i bet they do think the companies will pay (otherwise, why would they still build office and industrial space when there are currently so many vacancies?).

second, i think they don't know what else to do. sg economy is monochromatic, "serviced-apartment". there were 25 or 35 years of good economic growth (i.e., companies moving in), a ton of money came in. enough cash and time to start building their own economy. producing their own tech. growing their own entrepreneurs. they did nothing of that. so they are bound to continue with what worked. but now the cost of living has increased, so they just need more money.

third, they need construction sector to go on. it's a lot of gdp coming from constructions. a lot of money to report to the credit agencies, and a lot of rating to gain from it.

fourth, they leverage on the "where else" factor.

only time will tell when and how the cord will snap

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby calugaruvaxile » Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:28 pm

komatineni wrote:We've got a population with an entitlement complex and workers who want to be managers, and by "manager" they mean they want to hand work off to someone else, so you end up with a giant circle jerk of everyone trying to hand off everything to everyone else.

This is the real challenge. In addition the culture makes a huge role with 'titles' too. So engineer after 5 years is not a good thing. Everyone wants to be a manager, director. That's how driver becoming captain, cleaner changing to CGA (clean & green ambassador) :-k



this is not a sg thing. i remember my years of phd in france (15 years ago, already). the cleaning lady was called "technicien de surface" (like "floor specialist" in english), the bartender was "consultant en bar" and so on.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 27 Jul 2015 11:03 pm

calugaruvaxile wrote:oh, you deserve d drink for this :)!!


I was hired in to clean up a managed services problem for a major SE Asia MNC. Service was absolutely atrocious. New hires had to wait 2 weeks to get their PC's installed, your standard service ticket had an average open time of 30 days.

And in the middle of all this, the folks that were allegedly managing the vendors making a mess of things were grading themselves 7 or 8 out of 9... the manager did grade himself at a 9 and signed off on all the rest. Not a one of them could understand the disconnect between what was happening in the real world and their performance ratings. Filling in reports, going to meetings, meeting irrelevant yearly goals... participating in 'volunteer' activities... these were the only things that mattered.

With the exception of a couple of them, I gave them all 4's and 5's... I really wanted to give them 2's and 3's... but my manager vetoed it... it would cause HR to come in and want to know why such a vast change. "Tell them we are cleaning up the inflated f*ckery going on here"... didn't fly... they all got 6's and 7's for dismal performance.

The way to handle a problem is not to fix it but to hand it off to someone else, and if you can't find anyone, put it in the drawer in the hopes it will go away. Don't look at anything too closely because you might find something you need to fix. Always wait for direction for someone above you. Never question the plans that have been placed in front of you. Don't make any plans for yourself or analyze risk. Do become adept at saying, "that's not in my job description"... or... my favorite, "that's outside my scope of authority."

OK, I quit... beyond frustrating.

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Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby earthfriendly » Tue, 28 Jul 2015 1:40 am

Good for you for trying to do something about it!

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Re: RE: Re: ST says "Higher salary bar for foreigners seeking family visas"

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 28 Jul 2015 1:21 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:I was hired in to clean up a managed services problem for a major SE Asia MNC. Service was absolutely atrocious. New hires had to wait 2 weeks to get their PC's installed, your standard service ticket had an average open time of 30 days..


Between jobs I was attached to a consulting company ...

At the client site, I saw an urgent request for a replacement laptop, and since they clone images, I cloned it and sent it by evening

Next day I had a coffee chat with the immediate head asking me if I am pulling favours to the user, or if the user is a friend of mine ..and when I was trying to figure out what's going on, he gave me his golden advice. "Our turn around for new pc's is 5 days, FFS, don't rush and screw it up. We committed and constantly deliver within 5 days to ensue quality.... don't confuse the users ....in 1 day turn around a lot of things can go wrong..."

And 5 years later I can't still figure out what could go wrong in loading a ghost image with next to no customisation requirement. And if something went wrong, would it be better to manage the user than sit on it for 5 days before sending it out ??

And the Head is still there, maintaining quality service to his clients.

Likewise replacement toners have a 2 day turn around time ....

And the team has daily morning 1 hour lights off meeting, i.e they hang the do not disturb note, and review and prioritise issues, a compulsory all hands 2 hour lunch breaks weekly, to do team bonding ...


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