[UPDATE: Rejected] Thoughts on PR Chances

[beard1]

submitting to the shifus here for any insight they can provide on my PR chances:

Background: lived exclusively in Singapore since Sec 3, good local secondary school/top JC/NUS, good academic record
Education: Bachelor's Degree (NUS), Singapore A Level + O Level
Age: 25+
EP: EP since mid-2013
Employment: working in tech industry, well known Silicon Valley company
Salary: $4.3k + stock (almost 2x increase since first salary which was $2.5k, i'm hoping that shows future earning potential?)
Spouse: Marrying Singapore Citizen (Chinese) in a few weeks, ROM booked, LTVP pre-assessment already in place so ICA should be aware of this hopefully
Race: Rojak, mix of many different South Asian and European races
Community involvement: regular blood donor, prominent charity involvement
PR status so far: Rejected once (I think because I changed companies while application was ongoing), reapplied and now going on 5 months processing

any thoughts? I see a lot of folks who are high flyers, top execs etc. on the forum and who have been in SG for work 2/4/10 years, but didn't find a case similar to my own before. Where all you young folks at??

[beard1]

Should probably add that I'm from not from any of your typical countries applying for PR (although I guess ethnicity matters more to ICA than country?)

[lot286]

Good academic record, top JCs, etc and your starting salary was 2.5k?

[beard1]

Yep. Should've clarified that was base pay, with commission average 1500 monthly, sometimes more sometimes less. Was on 3k base within 3months so it's not the biggest deal. Chose to go into a career track unrelated to my degree hence the low start (no regrets though)

[svnebh]

Student pass then EP = NS runner?

[beard1]

If by runner you mean didn't serve, yup.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I reckon your chances are next to nil, at least from my gut reaction.

You have lived here since Sec 3. How? Are your parents or G.parents here? If so, are they PR's or Naturalized Citizens?

If they are either of the above, that means they tried to do a quick one on the gahment by not getting you PR when you were a kid in Sec School. That, to ICA would be deliberate intent to try pull a fast one on ICA. At any rate, we need to know what your status was while you were schooling in Secondary/JC & NUS Student pass? Who's sponsorship? LTVP on PR/Citizen's sponsorship? If that was the case, you chances are zero. ICA will see through the ruse as it's been tried hundreds of times. They let you work here on an EP because of your local education so you were a known quantity, but the fact that you were already rejected once leads me to think that they have figured out the game plan to avoid NS (PTS PR rarely (if ever) are required to do NS but all 2nd gen PRs will be obligated to do NS regardless of the primary PR's type of application. I think it will be probably a very cold day in .... before you get PR.

To add further, it would also appear to ICA that you are marrying a local girl because you were rejected and are now trying to get in through the side door without doing your NS obligation even though you had the benefits of an education in Singapore for quite a number of years.

But. I could be wrong - I've been wrong before. I thought I was wrong once before and it turned out I was right, therefore I was wrong in my assumption.

[beard1]

A lot of your answer is predicated on me being the kid of a PTS PR so let's clarify. Parents never came over, and nobody in my immediate family has ever lived in Singapore besides me. I got into school here based on my academic record and a scholarship program that used to exist. From o level onwards made my own way (paid own tuition fees etc) through uni and JC before getting a job here, so technically I'm the first generation in my family line. Student pass that whole time - those do not need to be sponsored btw.

Family emergency led me to leave Singapore immediately after JC but ended up coming back for Uni. Didn't attempt to take up PR then cos I wasn't sure I was coming back until literally days before I had to confirm with NUS.

Fair points you've made though. It's a pity that those of us who grow up here, integrate well and do stuff for society are less in favor (as far as ICA is concerned anyway) than those who come over as senior execs. I see why it makes economic sense but it's a system primed for failure; puts the people least likely to stay on the fast track to citizenship, closes the door to so many who are big fans of Singapore.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Thank you for the clarifications. It's hard to read behind the written word sometimes. I forgot about the scholarship programs as that was quite some time ago and would explain why late secondary school if you were on your own. Yes, I think they probably made a mistake the first time. Weren't you given a letter inviting you to apply for PR just prior to your graduation from Uni? It was pretty commonplace for scholarship grants to receive them back then. In fact, I don't think that stopped until 2011 or 12.

I know of a number of cases where the letters were received and not taken up and subsequently tried as they might, they learned the hard way that you should never kick a gift horse in the mouth as subsequent PR applications were summarily rejected and were told that they were welcome to stay here on an EP as long as they were able to find work, but PR was not to be. (Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned)?

Frankly, at this point I don't have any good vibes. You might try again, but I still feel that getting married will give off the wrong impression. If she is working and can support you, one might be tempted to tell ICA they would do the NS obligation IF it is their desire to stay here permanently. I'm not sure that would even work as I know of a case as I speak of something similar and he's still high and dry (and he's your age but with a London degree) and he's offered to do the NS.

[beard1]

Yup got the letter after JC but since I wasn't sure I was staying in Singapore at the time, declined. Not doing NS is a big regret for me cos I feel like I should give back to SG after doing so much for me. I hope to do so if/when my PR is approved (something my local friends deride me for).

Funnily enough I have a network of acquaintances who were from similar backgrounds, declined the letter but ultimately were granted their PR. Different mixes of race salary job nationality etc., all local Uni and at least JC, but none in too niche a field.

I'll probably apply one more time a few years after marriage (maybe after kid 1?) IF I get rejected this second time. Fiancée and I have considered migration so all is not lost Singapore will always be home in my heart though, so I hope I don't have to leave permanently one day!

Thanks for your input. I'll keep this spot updated on both the LTVP and PR applications should I hear from ICA.

[midlet2013]

So, you rejected PR when you were younger and probably a candidate for NS. And, now you want PR and probably skip NS.

If someone who did his entire schooling in Singapore does not want to do NS, then should he even apply for PR?

[beard1]

Where have I said I don't want to do NS? I'd encourage reading everything I've said up to this point.

[x9200]

Have you anyhow communicated to ICA your willingness to do NS and the reasons of declining the earlier PR offer? If not, perhaps you could consider doing it?

[ecureilx]

Funnily enough I have a network of acquaintances who were from similar backgrounds, declined the letter but ultimately were granted their PR. Different mixes of race salary job nationality etc., all local Uni and at least JC, but none in too niche a field. .

But in the last few years a lot of things have changed.

Years ago 10 year REP was not so uncommon, now it's like never

Likewise rejection of REP was next to never, except during the Asian Economy Crash, and now, stay out of town for a year .. REP easily gets downgraded to 1 year REP upon renewal

Heck, previously REP renewal was just a visit to ICA and done in ten minutes. Recently my friend's mother's REP required the son to submit a dozen documents..

ICA and Singapore has become choosy on who they want, and in that process quite a lot of collateral damage happens

And nowadays declaring your undying love for Singapore or Future plans get next to no points..known a few who want to live till death here but SG had other plans

That's my 2 cents ...

Anyway welcome back to Singapore ...

[beard1]

Have you anyhow communicated to ICA your willingness to do NS and the reasons of declining the earlier PR offer? If not, perhaps you could consider doing it?

Good idea - I'll get on that!

Funnily enough I have a network of acquaintances who were from similar backgrounds, declined the letter but ultimately were granted their PR. Different mixes of race salary job nationality etc., all local Uni and at least JC, but none in too niche a field. .

But in the last few years a lot of things have changed.

Years ago 10 year REP was not so uncommon, now it's like never

Likewise rejection of REP was next to never, except during the Asian Economy Crash, and now, stay out of town for a year .. REP easily gets downgraded to 1 year REP upon renewal

Heck, previously REP renewal was just a visit to ICA and done in ten minutes. Recently my friend's mother's REP required the son to submit a dozen documents..

ICA and Singapore has become choosy on who they want, and in that process quite a lot of collateral damage happens

And nowadays declaring your undying love for Singapore or Future plans get next to no points..known a few who want to live till death here but SG had other plans

That's my 2 cents ...

Anyway welcome back to Singapore ...

valid point - that whole group of acquaintances and I all applied around the same time (within the last 12 months) so pretty similar political/economic climate.

Really agree on the undying love part - that's unfortunately not the deciding factor. Nor is integration potential I guess!
No need welcome back, haven't left except for holiday and between JC/Uni for over a decade

Let's see how things go. I'm quietly confident that things will be different this time round