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Running Folk out of Town ....

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martincymru
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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby martincymru » Tue, 21 Jul 2015 8:57 am

It's all about energy. Minimise input to maximise output = good value.

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x9200
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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby x9200 » Tue, 21 Jul 2015 9:07 am

martincymru wrote:It's all about energy. Minimise input to maximise output = good value.

Who knows. I would not be that surprised.

Back to the obliviousness, if you think most of the behaviour can be attributed to it and if you are a bit bigger guy you may try to do a small experiment. Just ignore people while walking. If you do it in a slow pace (same as the surrounding human traffic) you will likely see that the collision rate is rather low.

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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby nakatago » Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:57 am

Brownian motion, but with humans?

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JR8
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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby JR8 » Tue, 21 Jul 2015 1:33 pm

I've seen ads suggesting people look where they are walking, i.e. not staring down at their phones. On the MRT IIRC.

I posted a long time ago about a little 'social experiment' I did on a whim one day. Walking along and seeing if any 'phone-starers' would not just pretend to be oblivious (to force me to move out of their way); but whether any would actually walk into me. IIRC almost all 'woke up' at the very last moment and avoided me. Only one walked square-on right into me... and promptly became hysterical with rage!?
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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 21 Jul 2015 3:47 pm

JR8 wrote: Only one walked square-on right into me... and promptly became hysterical with rage!?




There's another video of a guy with his face submerged in his phone stepping on a snake..


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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 21 Jul 2015 8:57 pm

I was on a bus last night heading back from work when I saw this guy typing away furiously on the screen, man I can tell you this guy was really quick to type and swipe, and it was as if time had momentarily stood still for facebook had to load and it was this millisecond that he anticipated would be a good time to turn away from the phone. I couldn't help wondering excessive staring at the screen would one day become a medical disorder.
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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby thismyvoice » Fri, 07 Aug 2015 4:18 pm

x9200 wrote:I don't think it is about being welcomed or not. You are smaller with limited ability to make your points so you tend to be ignored.

Also, you may feel unsafe because you expect the drivers to follow traffic regulations what is obviously not the case. But even if they do not follow the rules they still follow some patterns and after a while it becomes pretty obvious you should not trust the local drivers in many situations in other countries you would tend to trust. If you adjust your expectations and learn these patterns it can still be (I believe) a pleasurable experience.

I knew people who commuted to work by a bike, excess of 10km one way, every day and funny enough they claimed it was actually safer in Singapore than in many Western countries.


Welcome to Singapore, a place where drivers always appear to be in a rush and not give way to cyclist. On the other hand, you also have many cyclist making it a habit to ignore traffic rules to ride against traffic direction, ride 2 to 3 abreast, oblivious to the color of traffic lights. Due to lack of proper policing, both parties are not brought to task unless something serious happen. Why bother to fine the cyclist a miserable $20, and go through all the paperworks?

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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby movingtospore » Sat, 08 Aug 2015 1:43 pm

x9200 wrote:
nakatago wrote:
x9200 wrote:I knew people who commuted to work by a bike, excess of 10km one way, every day and funny enough they claimed it was actually safer in Singapore than in many Western countries.


In Singapore, drivers are just oblivious, have poor spatial awareness and would eventually run over people. In other countries, they aim for you.

Hard to say. I used to think they were oblivious. Some surely are, but for the majority it is IMHO a mixture of fixed expectations and opportunistic behaviour.

For example, they will never change the lane just parallel to the car occupying that lane. They will always go in front of that car and try to squeeze in. The other driver is expected to slow down and let them in (without showing any disapproval) and this is what happens in like 95% of the cases. It's one of those patterns.


I think the key to surviving on the roads here, in a bike or car, is to always drive or ride under the assumption that somebody is going to do something stupid at any moment. Defensive driving doesn't really seem to be a skill set so you need to assume the other guy will hit you, cut you off, etc., and not feel any need to take personal responsibility for their lack of driving skill.

I don't think the driving is particularly aggressive here, it's just clueless. Between that and the constantly blocked lanes, chaos often ensues. It's the really stupid moves that drive me round the bend, particularly the refusing to let people merge. It causes a lot of accidents and problems on the road.

There's plenty worse around the region I suppose. Though I found it easier to drive in Bangkok, to my surprise. They were more aggressive but seemed more sensible and predictable.

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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby calugaruvaxile » Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:08 pm

movingtospore wrote:
I think the key to surviving on the roads here, in a bike or car, is to always drive or ride under the assumption that somebody is going to do something stupid at any moment. Defensive driving doesn't really seem to be a skill set so you need to assume the other guy will hit you, cut you off, etc., and not feel any need to take personal responsibility for their lack of driving skill.

I don't think the driving is particularly aggressive here, it's just clueless. Between that and the constantly blocked lanes, chaos often ensues. It's the really stupid moves that drive me round the bend, particularly the refusing to let people merge. It causes a lot of accidents and problems on the road.

There's plenty worse around the region I suppose. Though I found it easier to drive in Bangkok, to my surprise. They were more aggressive but seemed more sensible and predictable.



i survived riding for 7 years in Singapore under the assumption that the cars around want to kill me. about once a week i was the victim of aggressive maneuvers from the part of a sg driver annoyed that the "pauper" biker dares to overtake him (even if the street was packed ...). oh, and i was once hit by a j-plate who thought he's on the racing track. too bad his bare hand was caught between my handlebar and his.

one major difference i see between texas and singapore is that in sg, every other day there was a kiasu accident on the fast lane of the pie, while there has been none on westpark tollway in 4 months.

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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby bgd » Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:10 am

movingtospore wrote:

I don't think the driving is particularly aggressive here, it's just clueless.


I think that sums things up pretty well. I find I'm pretty good at predicting that "clueless" behaviour. That said, I wear a camera when I ride. If something does happen I want the evidence on my side.

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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby x9200 » Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:37 pm

movingtospore wrote:I think the key to surviving on the roads here, in a bike or car, is to always drive or ride under the assumption that somebody is going to do something stupid at any moment.

Yes, exactly like this. Unfortunately there will be still things not possible to control or even monitor sufficiently, e.g. the traffic coming from behind.

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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 11 Aug 2015 1:39 pm

x9200 wrote:
movingtospore wrote:I think the key to surviving on the roads here, in a bike or car, is to always drive or ride under the assumption that somebody is going to do something stupid at any moment.

Yes, exactly like this. Unfortunately there will be still things not possible to control or even monitor sufficiently, e.g. the traffic coming from behind.


I rode motorcycle for 8 years in Singapore... it is possible to control and monitor sufficiently... you just need to be a proficient motorcycle rider... to identify dangers that most people never even think about.

I've put well over 100,000 miles on motorcycles in many countries in the world... my only injury was in an extremely difficult section of an off road adventure. At 17, and a brand new biking dumbass, I tore all the skin off my right shoulder for not paying attention to mud in the street. Since then I've never put a bike down in street riding, nor had an accident. It can be done.

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Re: Running Folk out of Town ....

Postby x9200 » Tue, 11 Aug 2015 2:00 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
x9200 wrote:
movingtospore wrote:I think the key to surviving on the roads here, in a bike or car, is to always drive or ride under the assumption that somebody is going to do something stupid at any moment.

Yes, exactly like this. Unfortunately there will be still things not possible to control or even monitor sufficiently, e.g. the traffic coming from behind.


I rode motorcycle for 8 years in Singapore... it is possible to control and monitor sufficiently... you just need to be a proficient motorcycle rider... to identify dangers that most people never even think about.

I've put well over 100,000 miles on motorcycles in many countries in the world... my only injury was in an extremely difficult section of an off road adventure. At 17, and a brand new biking dumbass, I tore all the skin off my right shoulder for not paying attention to mud in the street. Since then I've never put a bike down in street riding, nor had an accident. It can be done.

SE, we had this discussion before. I gave you some very specific examples of the situations where it was just beyond the control (assuming making riding practical). You have never responded to these examples. And if this matters I am riding in SG for 11y with similar mileage plus much much more driving cars in a number of countries. Single accident only in my whole life. In Singapore.


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