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An initial "insight" needed

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FOX711
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Re: RE: Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby FOX711 » Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:59 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:[quote="JR8"]
+1. funny isn't it, you miss home, but then go home, and er... it's not home and you yearn to be back here. So I totally get the running out of conversation/[novelty; or should that be lost familiarity?]. Damn it's complicated :lol: It's D-1 on my 9th relo, and still not heading for home. 'Maybe next time I'll call it quits...'

50th class reunion. Wow, that's going to be an eye-opener and perhaps culture-shock rolled into one. All those individual journeys crossing once more. Are you drawing up a must do/eat whilst there list? You'll be like a reverse snowbird, going to Florida and finding it cold... hehe...


Definitely not lost familiarity, but home is a town of less than 10k people in a farming/seafood community. So aside from how the crabs are running and how much johnson grass is in the corn or the moisture content of the soybeans crops, there's not too much to talk about other than the Balmer Ravens or Orioles - football/baseball. Oh, and as the Eastern Shore of Maryland is full of GOP sympathizers, Our nearby neighbour (100km), Washington DC. Otherwise, pfffft!

Maybe they are a little better today what with the advent of the Internet and FB. I'll be finding out soon enough I guess. Oh, and yes, I have a date with the Crab Claw Restaurant in Saint Michaels, MD (neighboring town of around 2K people - lived there for the first 10 years of my life). Should be a good one (3rd day of the reunion gathering for lunch there). I think we all worked at least a couple of months there in our teens during summer vacation. Steamed crabs, fresh oysters, soft crab sandwiches, crabcakes and beer!

JR8, you know what they say..... the road to perdition is paved with good intentions. I'll probably just keel over in the harness one day. :mrgreen:[/quote]
I have two countries I feel like my national, I have a few cities I feel like a base, several people with different colour who I feel like my family.-- I am only 31years and 350days old:P

I remember a courchsurfing host once told me: no matter where u r, no matter who u r with, u should make urself feel like home, because earth is our home



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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:04 pm

Home is wherever I hang my hat. ;-)

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby JR8 » Thu, 16 Jul 2015 4:32 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Definitely not lost familiarity, but home is a town of less than 10k people in a farming/seafood community. <snip>.... the road to perdition is paved with good intentions. I'll probably just keel over in the harness one day. :mrgreen:


That's an interesting point. I think urban centres change far more quickly than rural ones do. After a few years away from home I barely recognise the shops, restaurants, people, what people are dressing in etc. That's the thing I think, by default you imagine it'll be pretty much the same. For my neighbourhood the only constant seems to be the protected (heritage) architecture.

It's similar with SG. Go away for a couple of years and even the journey in from Changi is 'OMG! What's that!?' over and over.

... If I go back to where grew up in the country, almost nothing has changed. Except perhaps more tourists.

... Maryland crab-cakes, oh yes, I really do miss them too (and all the other NE coast seafood)...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby American » Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:56 pm

Money wise it sounds good. 150k as a base is quite well off and if you get any bonus or allowances with that even better. Still - negotiate for more if you can. On paper my base is lower than what it was in the US but you have to factor in the lower taxes. You don't need a car here especially if you don't have a toddler or younger in my opinion. Taxis in general are fine. I would think long and hard about the trailing spouse concern. Is your spouse ready to postpone their career as a trade off to be in Singapore? It can get mundane for a trailing spouse after a while. There are no guarantees your spouse will find a comparable position here though with a lot of grease and hustle Singapore has good opportunities. Again don't count on that. Still some other trailing spouse friends of mine took the opportunity to take a career break and have more children (trailing husbands included) - Singapore is a wonderful place for that. If you're keen on exploring the region and broadening your soft skill set work wise I find Singapore highly simulating in that regard. I work with hard working aggressive if not sharp people here compared to my US office.

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby American » Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:07 am

soulsearching wrote:
JR8 wrote:Yr thoughts/point 1, in reply to BGD is a wise way to go. Assume no work initially for the non-working spouse; to decide what you need to earn, then if he/she is able to get it together then it's a real double bonus... mind you life as a 'trailing spouse' isn't thaaat bad hehe ;)
Ooh-arrh nice car, yeah some things you have to temporarily let go off, but the other things - as you suggest the great travel opportunities - present themselves instead. Some of the places you can get to from here, that realistically you're never likely to during your working career from back in the West, i.e. places that are really remote are amazing*... the car, garden, and so on are in this temporarily dispensable category, but they can be re-acquired as and when you return home.

*We're just back from our 2nd visit to Malapascua Island in the Philippines... Then there are so many other options, several we did, a couple we still hope to one day :) But this is one for the Travel topics...



tell me about it! Seriously, and I only got it like 7 months back, but oh well, to gain something bigger one has to loose something else ... so I shall brood a bit but then carry on.

Over 14K posts ... wow you have been a real long timer here. :mrgreen:

Lets hope things move pleasently .. am suppose to hear an update today. currently I work as a global director but with a mainly european focus in my IB, so travel a fair bit around. However the chance to do the same in Asia, is truly something all "3" of us are looking forward to.


Money wise it sounds good. 150k as a base is quite well off and if you get any bonus or allowances with that even better. Still - negotiate for more if you can. On paper my base is lower than what it was in the US but you have to factor in the lower taxes. You don't need a car here especially if you don't have a toddler or younger in my opinion. Taxis in general are fine. I would think long and hard about the trailing spouse concern. Is your spouse ready to postpone their career as a trade off to be in Singapore? It can get mundane for a trailing spouse after a while. There are no guarantees your spouse will find a comparable position here though with a lot of grease and hustle Singapore has good opportunities. Again don't count on that. Still some other trailing spouse friends of mine took the opportunity to take a career break and have more children (trailing husbands included) - Singapore is a wonderful place for that. If you're keen on exploring the region and broadening your soft skill set work wise I find Singapore highly simulating in that regard. I work with hard working aggressive if not sharp people here compared to my US office. You might want to factor in office culture as you may find yourself at the office longer than you would back home!

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby soulsearching » Fri, 17 Jul 2015 9:00 pm

American wrote: You might want to factor in office culture as you may find yourself at the office longer than you would back home!


Thanks @American, great insight into things and sound advice too.

First of all apologies .... I was away for work hence couldnt log on. However to refocus the fine folks, latest update is follows:

The company is currently delibrating whether to offer me the role in London or Singapore. From their side the concern seems to be, relocating me from here to there and then me getting fed up quite quickly and also to factor in they have to show to local authorities a "talent" like me doesnt exist locally (which I think is easier then atleast here in UK).
So if the role is offered to me in London, ofcourse it will have to reflect the local salary which is significant cost issue to them as opposed to basing me locally. With my current base in london, they will have to uplift it by 20% or so, whereas if placing me in Singapore, they can match / reduce slightly like for like and say due to local tax, it is in effect a real bump up.

so some hardcore negotiations going on. I will be meeting them shortly next week for furhter discussion. For all it matters I have a life in London, so having a role here is perfect for me. They will have to decide what they want to do as I am walking into this on my terms (or not).

finally I quoted @American, cause believe me in IB London hours are unmatched. I say cause I do visit my European offices like every week or every two weeks. People over there lived a charmed life. Am mostly putting in 7am to 7PM+ atleast .... (if not more), plus travels.... so am not fazed by the long hours.

so finally chaps getting this topic back on track - even though it was nice to hear your pesonal backgrounds and stories.

SHOULD I TAKE THE OFFER IN LONDON (with a salary uplift) or SHOULD I PUSH ON FOR SINGAPORE (for around 200K SGD mark)......

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby FOX711 » Fri, 17 Jul 2015 9:29 pm

It's your life, so I probably should not give too much opinion on it.
But you said you are 32 years old, you are ALREADY in London.
Don't you think life is about experience?

Some benefits, such as salary, is obvious to recognise. Others, is only seen by intuition.
let's imagine when you are 40, and you are applying for competitive position, do you think you have a better chance as someone who NEVER left London? Or someone has based in Singapore, has fair understanding of multiple cultures, especially Asians?

And it may offend you, but I want to say, get the hell out of London, and get your ass here in Asia to taste REAL food~~!

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby soulsearching » Fri, 17 Jul 2015 9:41 pm

FOX711 wrote:It's your life, so I probably should not give too much opinion on it.
But you said you are 32 years old, you are ALREADY in London.
Don't you think life is about experience?

Some benefits, such as salary, is obvious to recognise. Others, is only seen by intuition.
let's imagine when you are 40, and you are applying for competitive position, do you think you have a better chance as someone who NEVER left London? Or someone has based in Singapore, has fair understanding of multiple cultures, especially Asians?

And it may offend you, but I want to say, get the hell out of London, and get your ass here in Asia to taste REAL food~~!


do not hold yourself about opinion!!!! Believe me thats why I am here! I want to seek opinion, else I will never b****y make mind up :shock: :shock: ... so all these little things do make a diff e.g. your comment about food ... about making most of life .... about expanding horizons....

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby FOX711 » Sat, 18 Jul 2015 12:24 am

I think the only fairness on earth, is that we all are going to die, sooner or later.
So no point to limit yourself by just a few thousands of USD. Money can't buy you experience nor secret hainan chicken rice sauces...

I can share with you my experience:

I quit my job in 2014, and become a full time researcher in a local university which in a rank no one cares.

I researched about efficiency for a professor, under school of management with my mathematics background.
I spent some of my time practising and teaching a music instrument I have learnt for a few years.
I got minimum income by tutoring mathematics.
some months I earned more than a stable job, some months I earned nothing.
And to broaden my chance of income, I learnt origami art, hand-made Inca jewellery...
I also shaved my head, to learn natural treatment for healthy hair, and avoid unnecessary attractions from superficial males.

My Chinese rich friend visited me last October, and he was shocked by my life with "no goal", and my shaolin monk hair style. He was "worried" about my future when I told him I may just live frugal and do maths, or live in the mountain play music, or whatsoever flows towards me, but I can NOT live one more day without being passionate and respected. He took me to Singapore, he introduced me to NUS professor tried to persuade me to quit my not so good university, he booked for the most expensive hotel, and tried to make me understand importance of money, so a shaolin monk was swimming in an infinity poolside with bikini and porche sunglasses...funny picture.

Now, I am got a good job because they like what I researched with "no goal", with or without degree. And they like my multi cultural interests. I got an offer from University of Oxford, for MSc in education (part-time), because they like my unique philosophy about education+my good job.

My friend asked me today, so, what are you going to do in the future?
I told him I am going to apply for education roster in UN, then in 5 years time, I would like to find an official position UN institutions, and probably in 10 -15 years time working in UN Switzerland in culture and education.--and this time, his was shocked my "BIG goals", "worried" that I may not be able to achieve them. --I said, freak it, so what, then I go back to the frugal monk mountain plan...

--My point here, is not to encourage you to move to Singapore, not to say u will be guaranteed to gain sth. My point is, sometimes life is not about what you WANT, but about what you NOT want; and decision could be made base not on what is the BEST, but what could be the WORSE.

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An initial "insight" needed

Postby ashish.sachdeva2010 » Sun, 19 Jul 2015 2:22 pm

FOX711 wrote:I think the only fairness on earth, is that we all are going to die, sooner or later.
So no point to limit yourself by just a few thousands of USD. Money can't buy you experience nor secret hainan chicken rice sauces...

I can share with you my experience:

I quit my job in 2014, and become a full time researcher in a local university which in a rank no one cares.

I researched about efficiency for a professor, under school of management with my mathematics background.
I spent some of my time practising and teaching a music instrument I have learnt for a few years.
I got minimum income by tutoring mathematics.
some months I earned more than a stable job, some months I earned nothing.
And to broaden my chance of income, I learnt origami art, hand-made Inca jewellery...
I also shaved my head, to learn natural treatment for healthy hair, and avoid unnecessary attractions from superficial males.

My Chinese rich friend visited me last October, and he was shocked by my life with &quot;no goal&quot;, and my shaolin monk hair style. He was &quot;worried&quot; about my future when I told him I may just live frugal and do maths, or live in the mountain play music, or whatsoever flows towards me, but I can NOT live one more day without being passionate and respected. He took me to Singapore, he introduced me to NUS professor tried to persuade me to quit my not so good university, he booked for the most expensive hotel, and tried to make me understand importance of money, so a shaolin monk was swimming in an infinity poolside with bikini and porche sunglasses...funny picture.

Now, I am got a good job because they like what I researched with &quot;no goal&quot;, with or without degree. And they like my multi cultural interests. I got an offer from University of Oxford, for MSc in education (part-time), because they like my unique philosophy about education+my good job.

My friend asked me today, so, what are you going to do in the future?
I told him I am going to apply for education roster in UN, then in 5 years time, I would like to find an official position UN institutions, and probably in 10 -15 years time working in UN Switzerland in culture and education.--and this time, his was shocked my &quot;BIG goals&quot;, &quot;worried&quot; that I may not be able to achieve them. --I said, freak it, so what, then I go back to the frugal monk mountain plan...

--My point here, is not to encourage you to move to Singapore, not to say u will be guaranteed to gain sth. My point is, sometimes life is not about what you WANT, but about what you NOT want; and decision could be made base not on what is the BEST, but what could be the WORSE.

Hi fox,

Really impressed by your story, it's all about going with the flow.

Ashish


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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby American » Sun, 19 Jul 2015 5:40 pm

soulsearching wrote:
American wrote: You might want to factor in office culture as you may find yourself at the office longer than you would back home!


The company is currently delibrating whether to offer me the role in London or Singapore. From their side the concern seems to be, relocating me from here to there and then me getting fed up quite quickly and also to factor in they have to show to local authorities a "talent" like me doesnt exist locally (which I think is easier then atleast here in UK).
...
SHOULD I TAKE THE OFFER IN LONDON (with a salary uplift) or SHOULD I PUSH ON FOR SINGAPORE (for around 200K SGD mark)......


Don't worry so much about the SG labor requirement to list your position before they can finalize your offer/work pass. If they want to hire you here in SG, you'll get it. This is just a formality. It sounds like you already have a specialized skillset so I won't worry about this.

If you're pushing for 200K SGD/year, that's a fantastic offer for Singapore, even if your housing isn't covered. Even if it was 150K/year with housing allowance, that's a nice package. I'd say that's a bit over par for what some of my i-banking friends make on local pay.

I also second the comment around getting this on your resume. Compare yourself to some chap with comparable skills that made it through the ranks back in London with no intl experience, vs. you with multi-years of Asia experience.

If you can make it happen, and spouse is good with the move, then I'd definitely say go for it!

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby soulsearching » Sun, 19 Jul 2015 6:25 pm

American wrote:
If you can make it happen, and spouse is good with the move, then I'd definitely say go for it!



Great piece of advice ... and as usual everyone is helping me a lot. I think I have now more clearer vision. Also have been busy reading other posts on the forum ...... in whatever spare time I can manage.

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby x9200 » Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:09 pm

One more point: if you accept it ensure this is an assignment valuable for your career over longer time and with robust opportunity for progress. 2-4y contracts are safe in that respect but with good salary and possibility of the contract to be extended, some of us have fallen into the trap of being stuck here for longer than reasonable for the held positions.

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby soulsearching » Tue, 21 Jul 2015 3:34 am

x9200 wrote:One more point: if you accept it ensure this is an assignment valuable for your career over longer time and with robust opportunity for progress. 2-4y contracts are safe in that respect but with good salary and possibility of the contract to be extended, some of us have fallen into the trap of being stuck here for longer than reasonable for the held positions.



tomorrow I shall hear further from the firm, so lets see where this goes! I am more sure now about the prospect of moving there, then I was before joining this forum, thanks to all your advice. But also I have couple of other roles that are progressing locally, so shall see. Will keep you all posted none the less

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Re: An initial "insight" needed

Postby soulsearching » Thu, 06 Aug 2015 7:02 pm

GENTS!

final interview with HR head done! Ready to negotiate. Probably will fly out to Singapore shortly.


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