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No win situation for PR's?

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AndrewV
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No win situation for PR's?

Postby AndrewV » Tue, 07 Jul 2015 3:53 pm

Since many of the expats will very possibly retire back to their own country once they are done with Singapore, and given the fact that you need X number of year of residency in order to maintain your PR in , I guess it's safe to assume that once these PR's go back to their native country after a certain number of years their REP's would no longer be valid, thus ending their tenure as PR's (am I right?)

Now the question is, is this considered renouncing your PR? because If I am not wrong, once you renounce your PR, all subsidies or benefits that were accorded to you will have to be paid back. Including the subsidies you enjoyed for education, hospitalization, other benefits etc...

Is this correct? meaning PR's who go back to their own country will simply have never have gotten any benefits at all because they would have to pay back all subsidies they received (with interest is suspect).

Does it work this way or am I overthinking things?

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby bgd » Tue, 07 Jul 2015 4:18 pm

If you have retired to another country then you are not a permanent resident of Singapore. It's only right that you lose PR status in that case. PR is not citizenship, so it's use it or lose it.

Pay back benefits? First I've heard of that. Singapore will repay your CPF contributions on revoking PR.

So no, you aren't correct. You can enjoy the benefits or PR (whatever they may be now?) while you reside in Sg. Once you leave, you leave. End of story, nothing to pay back.

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 07 Jul 2015 6:28 pm

AndrewV, what are you smoking? You are not overthinking anything. In fact, you don't appear to be thinking at all. Who in their right mind would take up PR if that were true? Or are you a mole for the opposition parties looking for something to blow up somebody's arse on FB or what-have-you. :???:

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby Barnsley » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 9:43 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:AndrewV, what are you smoking? You are not overthinking anything. In fact, you don't appear to be thinking at all. Who in their right mind would take up PR if that were true? Or are you a mole for the opposition parties looking for something to blow up somebody's arse on FB or what-have-you. :???:


However if they had had that as a rule , then folk wouldnt have taken up PR if they didnt intend on it being what it said on the tin. :D :D :D :D
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AndrewV
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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby AndrewV » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:15 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:AndrewV, what are you smoking? You are not overthinking anything. In fact, you don't appear to be thinking at all. Who in their right mind would take up PR if that were true? Or are you a mole for the opposition parties looking for something to blow up somebody's arse on FB or what-have-you. :???:


haha, ok point noted. The reason I asked is because I have heard from 3rd parties (never a direct source I must admit), that, as a pr, upon withdrawing CPF you need to pay back certain things to the government. Any idea what these things might be?

I know for certain (1st hand information), that if you give up your citizenship, you need to pay back the government all the benefits you enjoyed while you were a citizen. I know of a person(Bord and bred local) who has a kid in australia, and when deciding to take up australian citizenship, they were faced with this dilemma (The kid had done NS as well)

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby the lynx » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:22 am

What you actually heard is that if one renounces PR and/or citizenship, he has to sell own HDB back to the government and ensure that his children and himself have already fulfilled NS obligation prior to that (or satisfied the conditions/procedures mandated by CMPB). Then he can withdraw CPF in full.

But if he changes his mind and wants to re-apply for PR/citizenship, he has to pay back CPF in FULL, as well any bond with the government. Not sure about baby bonus/SG50 freebies for citizens though. But medical/education subsidies are definitely not required to be returned.

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:41 am

The requirement to sell the HDB back to the government is not there, as they can divest themselves of it before they give up their PR/citizenship on the market IF they can find a buyer. Otherwise, then they would have to sell it back to the HDB at their rates. The only other "Payback" is as lynx noted, IF you were to return to Singapore in the future after withdrawing your CPF (which, buy the way, you don't have to withdraw it. You can leave it sitting there drawing a pretty nice rate of interest that you cannot find, risk on risk anywhere else in the market) then, before regaining PR/citizenship sometime in the future, assuming that they would be interested, you would have to replace all the CPF withdrawn as well as the interest AND any interest that would have accrued, had the money been left in situ the whole time. Otherwise, you give up PR/citizenship, you don't pay back anything. Unless you break a bond for the NS eligible male children if any.

On the HDB housing, I think it would depend on how long you have owned the flat. If you are still a "new" owner, you might have to pay back the grants (which is similar if you sell to upgrade within the 5 or 10 year period as well).

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby AndrewV » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:47 am

the lynx wrote:What you actually heard is that if one renounces PR and/or citizenship, he has to sell own HDB back to the government and ensure that his children and himself have already fulfilled NS obligation prior to that (or satisfied the conditions/procedures mandated by CMPB). Then he can withdraw CPF in full.

But if he changes his mind and wants to re-apply for PR/citizenship, he has to pay back CPF in FULL, as well any bond with the government. Not sure about baby bonus/SG50 freebies for citizens though. But medical/education subsidies are definitely not required to be returned.


gotcha on the PR aspect.
As for citizenship, I think it's a different story, my friend had to return all the medical/education subsidies his child received while he was growing up here. The Child is already 26 and considering taking up australian citizenship and this is what he is faced with (upon him consulting with the singapore consulate in Australia)

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the lynx
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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby the lynx » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:55 am

I would be curious on how they calculate the medical/education subsidies. From the foreigner/full cost? Just curious.

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 11:59 am

AndrewV wrote:As for citizenship, I think it's a different story, my friend had to return all the medical/education subsidies his child received while he was growing up here. The Child is already 26 and considering taking up australian citizenship and this is what he is faced with (upon him consulting with the singapore consulate in Australia)


I think that's bullshit... how about a citation that supports this?

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 2:01 pm

I believe it's BS as well. Otherwise, I'm sure MS would have waved that danger flag years ago with all threads concerning same in the Strictly Speaking forum.

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 08 Jul 2015 9:30 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I believe it's BS as well. Otherwise, I'm sure MS would have waved that danger flag years ago with all threads concerning same in the Strictly Speaking forum.


The more I think about it, the more nonsensical it seems. First, it assumes that the gahmen is maintaining a ledger for every naturalized citizen so that they can keep track of subsidies and government services provided. And second, what is the gahmen going to do... throw you into debtor's prison because you owe them a $100,000 in returnable subsidies? Pish!

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AndrewV
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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby AndrewV » Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:27 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:I believe it's BS as well. Otherwise, I'm sure MS would have waved that danger flag years ago with all threads concerning same in the Strictly Speaking forum.


The more I think about it, the more nonsensical it seems. First, it assumes that the gahmen is maintaining a ledger for every naturalized citizen so that they can keep track of subsidies and government services provided. And second, what is the gahmen going to do... throw you into debtor's prison because you owe them a $100,000 in returnable subsidies? Pish!


i'm afraid I can't provide any citation or data on this other than the word of my friend. As for the ledger on benefits, I think this seems to be one of those hearsay things discussed in local circles (heard it mentioned a few times). My friend said that they will deduct from the CPF of the person who is renouncing his citizenship, and if that is not enough, his parent's CPF.

Again, this is solely based on the information from my friend, I am not claiming it to be true, but he has never had cause to lie to be thus far.

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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:52 am

AndrewV wrote:gotcha on the PR aspect.
As for citizenship, I think it's a different story, my friend had to return all the medical/education subsidies his child received while he was growing up here. The Child is already 26 and considering taking up australian citizenship and this is what he is faced with (upon him consulting with the singapore consulate in Australia)


Not true. As I and many others have done it You DO NOT and DOES NOT NEED to pay any subsidies nor baby boom and BLASTED grant in any shape or form be it on their chicken head or Lion Head for that matter.
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Re: No win situation for PR's?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:21 pm

^^^See! The Guru has spoken. And you can take his word as the gospel! ;-)


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