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For the Divers Amongst Us...

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 06 Jul 2015 2:20 pm

With 50 years of being wet both on Scuba and commercially, I hope they are hung out to dry, or at the very least, stripped of the 5* PADI rating. (Although I don't think too much of PADI anyway as they have ALWAYS been too commercial for my way of thinking). That's not to say there aren't some darn good divers out there carrying PADI certs though.

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby the lynx » Mon, 06 Jul 2015 2:52 pm

:x What the eff. My blood boils looking at those photos!

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby JR8 » Mon, 06 Jul 2015 8:07 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:With 50 years of being wet both on Scuba and commercially, I hope they are hung out to dry, or at the very least, stripped of the 5* PADI rating. (Although I don't think too much of PADI anyway as they have ALWAYS been too commercial for my way of thinking). That's not to say there aren't some darn good divers out there carrying PADI certs though.


The badges a dive centre can get '5* IDC' etc are based on the number of divers they qualify, and paying for that accreditation, oh and complying with the relevant standards associated with being '5* IDC'. Being 5* IDC (etc) itself shows they have through-put, rather than being an outright sign of quality.

If I'm planning on diving somehwhere new I tend to put a lot of time into identifying the most professional dive centre. Usually this is not the best known, nor the business from the options available.

When issues like this quoted arise I have seen dive-centres publicly black-balled on Facebook. A critical mass of the dive community is usually well connected. Then bodies like the local equiv of 'Marine Parks' awake into action. Then, PADI are pretty good at kicking into action, striking off DMs, Instructors, and so on.

Sure PADI are commercial, but they also have solid standards. If PADI didn't exist there'd probably be 80% less people diving than there are today. [That probably merits a side debate over 10 beers ;;]. Are BSAC, NAUI or SSI better? I don't know from what I've seen. It seems more down to the culture/nationaility of the divers IME.

I think the respect/conservation issue is beyond what dive org is involved. If you want to see *ucktards attempting to ride dolphins in Egypt or other egregious *law-breaking* there odds on it will be by Russian divers. Want to see wild and reckless behaviour in Tioman - odds on it will be [cough] people of '''North/NE Asian origin'''. It's about education. People in Russia and the latter aren't taught why a 'no touch' policy is serious and matters. So unfortunately if you're on a dive-site dropped behind a group from either of those countries you're likely in for a pretty depressing time...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby earthfriendly » Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:30 am


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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:35 am

earthfriendly wrote:Tourists in the news !

http://www.grindtv.com/wildlife/tourist ... zFS2w6g.97


The ignorance of people is downright amazing. I fear for my granddaughter, for the world she is going to have to live in seems to be filled with the ignorant and the extreme.

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby JR8 » Tue, 15 Sep 2015 2:52 pm

Tourists yes, but a lot of them appear to be Costa Rican tourists so perhaps no need to flail ourselves too heavily that it's all 'rich westerners'. I also expect that the CRs find it convenient to point the finger solely at 'whitey', just as it is in some other countries.

Looking at some Google hits like...
http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/endange ... /ostional/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostional_Wildlife_Refuge
http://nicoyapeninsula.com/ostional/

It's a protected/gazetted wildlife reserve, and has an entrance fee. But as is so often the case there are back-ways in, and not enough resources to control access.

It comes down to money, as usual. Local tour operators will gladly take you there; and there is little or no control when you get there.

If it were my remit (a local politician). I'd start by announcing that the beach is off-limits during xyz times, barring specifically controlled areas.
I'd seek to get the villagers themselves into the beach management roles, and have a trainer go to local schools to teach the children why conservation matters (and in fact that they will benefit now and in the future by protecting their environment).
Control and police access. Have a visitor quota per night (like Sipidan Island). Charge a materially higher entrance fee, and use the fees to hire (local) staff for crowd control.
Any local operators breaching the rules... send in the police and make a few arrests (as 'Marine Parks Tioman' sometimes do).

I think in this case it boils down to education and empowering the locals to manage and protect their children's future. Protect it against those who think it a good idea to pillage it today, and 'If I don't get it now someone else will, and who cares about tomorrow'...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 16 Sep 2015 1:47 am

“Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish been caught, and the last stream poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money.” ― Cree Indian Prophecy

http://www.thinkinghumanity.com/2015/09 ... anger.html

Just speaking from my own experiences, my past hobbies such as knitting, crocheting and crafting did not yield that much satisfaction. And I did not know why (but now I know why). I ended up buying stuff e.g. yarn, different sizes needle etc.. just to create more stuff. And then sometimes gifting them but not really knowing how well-liked it will be with the recipients, the color, material and do they even like knitted wear. Although I am quite happy with some of the stuff toy characters I made for my kids, it can be their keepsake forever.........

Nowadays, I do activities that do not result in the production of "stuff" such as singing, playing instrument and martial arts. And I am happier for it as I am not adding any more "stuff" in my life.

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby JR8 » Wed, 16 Sep 2015 2:12 am

The Cree are long extinct, or as near as matters, so mebbe take on board their 'wisdom' at your peril. Dontyathink?

EF: have you considered whether you are trying and failing to work out some guilt you have taken upon 'thine shoulders'? i.e. you sound like you have a comfortable life, but you also sound as if you're still searching for some missing piece of life's jigsaw.

My own 2c is to accept that there is no plan or jigsaw, and that this is it.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 16 Sep 2015 3:17 am

JR8 wrote:The Cree are long extinct, or as near as matters...


Not true at all. There are many pockets of native Americans throughout the United States. There is a constant push, that may be picking up steam, to expose the genocide that occurred in the USA when the white man arrived. The Trail of Tears is the most well known, and the fact is native Americans were slaughtered when they got in the way.

My own men's organization, the Mankind Project, utilizes native American practice and tradition as the central core of it's earth stewardship program.

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby JR8 » Wed, 16 Sep 2015 3:54 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cree
Interesting, thanks, I'm wrong. Perhaps I'm conflating not having modern power, with not existing.
From a Darwinian perspective I'd still expect the genes/habits of the successful to thrive etc (and vv).

why would you follow the creed of a tribe that are nor flourishing?

Better leave it there for now ;) the sun is well down....
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 16 Sep 2015 5:22 am

I don't know about taking on "guilt" but maybe others would be a better judge. Sometimes, there is an undercurrent sadness that runs thru me. And I tear up easily. Not just at sad things / events but when I hear beautiful music and see beautiful things. It just is, JRB. And I notice my own mother is a little bit like that and now, one of my own daughter too.

I am fascinated by native American cultures. And my daughter had also mentioned she likes their way. It is light. It is carefree. And it is freeing. One time we saw a group performing in NY subway station. We were both drawn to the music and she wanted to get this.

Image

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby JR8 » Wed, 16 Sep 2015 3:43 pm

earthfriendly wrote:I am fascinated by native American cultures. And my daughter had also mentioned she likes their way. It is light. It is carefree. And it is freeing.


So perhaps for your next holiday you might be forgoing this
Image

For this?
Image


More seriously, this reminds me of a couple of friends. They have both 'made it' [in their own ways], but I'm not sure if I know other similarly permanently unfulfilled people. One FBs every day with pictures of mistreated dogs, and the other mistreated horses (!?). Is this how it ends?

My hunch is 'Idle hands are the devil's workshop'.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:42 am

I hear you. Statistically, indigenous groups around the world (Hawaii, Australia, Taiwan, USA (and SG?)) have high rate of social problems like alcoholism. I think it is due to the inability to adapt and cope with a new order, lifestyle and economic system.

Cultures (ancient China and the modern Western world) that reap huge financial wealth tend to focus and put in a lot of effort to develop their commerce system. Native Americans enjoy their lives in the wide open plains, hunting and taking from nature what they need for their personal subsistence and bartering. Whereas, a capitalist would be thinking of methods to round up the most number of animals and so he can sell the excess for $ in his piggy bank. Ooops, that sounds like me hoping for a nice and comfortable retirement, free from financial worries.

They may not rank high in the social and economic ladder, I am still moved by the beauty of their culture. There is a lot of wisdom I can learn from them, this peaceful co-existence of men and nature and the universe.

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Re: For the Divers Amongst Us...

Postby JR8 » Thu, 17 Sep 2015 1:47 am

The Pacific-Rim for genetic reasons has a problem with alcohol, aka alcohol-intolerance. That includes 'Eskimos'. [I wonder if there is cross-over with lactose-intolerance, resulting from an absence of the lactase gene... hmmm].

But you're harking back to simpler times. Hey, mebbe go and pitch a tent in the garden and dig a composting latrine... after a week or two I expect you'll be a rabid neo-capitalist :)

... or perhaps you should go on a jungle survival course? A proper recreational one of a week or two. If you haven't done one it is amazing what resources are there for the taking if you are taught. Shelter, food, water, navigation... but you might be surprised (and disappointed) how even when you have the know-how and tools, how brutally hard that kind of 'hunter-gatherer' subsistence is.

Why else do you think on the JSC I did, we ended up forced to stew up stinking day old anteater guts... Nothing noble in that man, gimme a nice juicy steak in a fancy restaurant any day ;)
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard


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