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Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

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zzm9980
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 8:12 pm

ecureilx wrote:
RedRidingHood wrote:Anyone with the answer?


Rather than depend on what maybe seen as heresy, why not give a call to the agent ?

Unless your agent is a fly by night operator, and there are few of that category, they will clear your doubts and advice you properly ...


Or read whatever contracts you the employer signed when you hired the maid. But it seems like common sense to me. The maid is a normal human being, with the same human rights you or I have, except while working in Singapore. If she is outside Singapore, why would you have any responsibility for her at all? Singapore grants her her visa based on the employer accepting responsibilty for her. If she is able to enter Malaysia or Indonesia or wherever, those countries' immigration departments have accepted responsibility for her.

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Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 8:35 pm

Both points Zzm made just spot on and also I could not agree more on the slavery mentality comment.

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Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 8:51 pm

It's not about slavery ...

It's what the law says as responsibility of an employer of a maid and repercussions for failing to ensure the welfare and safety of the maid, as "defined by Singapore law"

Agreed a lot have issues with many of the laws here especially when it comes to not just maids but also lowly paid work pass holders, including workers being housed in inhuman conditions ... (and some local wise man even having suggested the labourers be shipped to a far away island and be brought in just to work ... and keep them out of sight otherwise ... )

No, I don't always agree with the conditions defined in the Labour law.

Such grouse should be directed at MOM instead of accusing me of having a slave owner mentality.

Peace ...

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Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 8:53 pm

RedRidingHood wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:.
I actually think if something "happens" to the maid while in Malaysia or Indonesia you'd have no legal liability at all.


Legally you are wrong there ...

You can consult any agency to confirm it ...

Ps, I am not hinting her of any illegal activity ... just to clarify ...


Anyone with the answer?

You have no legal liability if she does not return to Singapore for whatever reason. The worst case scenario is the maid gets missing (if she does not return to your place, this is the case). Unfortunately in such case you may lose the security deposit:

http://www.mom.gov.sg/passes-and-permit ... of-changes

You must file a missing person police report and cancel the Work Permit within 1 week of knowing that your worker is missing. If not, it is against the law, and you will also continue paying the levy for the worker.

After cancellation, you will be given 1 month to find the worker. If the worker is not found by then, your security bond will be forfeited. Half of the security bond ($2,500) will be forfeited if you have made reasonable effort to locate her and filed a police report.

but

You can apply for a refund of a forfeited security deposit if you have found the foreign worker or helped the police to find the worker for repatriation.

You must apply within 3 months from the date of the demand letter to the bank or insurance company for payment of the security deposit.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 8:54 pm

zzm9980 wrote: If she is able to enter Malaysia or Indonesia or wherever, those countries' immigration departments have accepted responsibility for her.


You are painting the ideal condition and what logic says.

But in reality, until her work pass is terminated, the employer is responsible, says the law, unless she went back for home leave.

If MOM has changed the conditions, let OP find out from her agent ... as I suggested, than confusing her...

Ps, you are kidding about MY or ID immigration accepting responsibility right ? Such responsibility only applies to certain passport holders, and especially not for lowly regarded Asian passport holders...

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:02 pm

SMS is best placed to clarify OPs questions ...and he's eerily silent watching us slug it out :roll::roll::roll:

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Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby RedRidingHood » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:02 pm

Ok let me check with my agent and update later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:14 pm

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote: If she is able to enter Malaysia or Indonesia or wherever, those countries' immigration departments have accepted responsibility for her.


You are painting the ideal condition and what logic says.

But in reality, until her work pass is terminated, the employer is responsible, says the law, unless she went back for home leave.


The employer's responsibility concerns reasonable performance in providing care and assuring well being of the maid. Allowing the maid to leave the country does not mean the employer did not perform in the said respect. Of course if the maid gets injured and is sent back to SG the employer has take care of her, but this is because the maid is back in SG and not because she crossed the border.

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Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:18 pm

RedRidingHood wrote:Ok let me check with my agent and update later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you want to know the truth talk to a lawyer or MOM. The legal awareness among any agent in this country is mostly about how to do them good and make their life less complicated.

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Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:32 pm

ecureilx wrote:It's what the law says as responsibility of an employer of a maid and repercussions for failing to ensure the welfare and safety of the maid, as "defined by Singapore law"


Why would Singapore law apply in Malaysia or Indonesia?

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:34 pm

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Ps, you are kidding about MY or ID immigration accepting responsibility right ? Such responsibility only applies to certain passport holders, and especially not for lowly regarded Asian passport holders...


By accept responsibilty, I mean they are allowing her into the country. Singapore is issuing her a visa and allowing her into the country on the condition that her employer accepts limited responsibility for her actions. If the employer hasn't entered into such an arrangement with the other government, why would he be responsible if she got drunk, pregnant, raped, or even killed somebody there?

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Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:35 pm

Threads like this are why I sometimes miss this forum :)

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:36 pm

ecureilx wrote:SMS is best placed to clarify OPs questions ...and he's eerily silent watching us slug it out :roll::roll::roll:


My guess is that his "Squirrel you're wrong again" macro is just broken :)

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Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Jul 2015 9:39 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:It's what the law says as responsibility of an employer of a maid and repercussions for failing to ensure the welfare and safety of the maid, as "defined by Singapore law"


Why would Singapore law apply in Malaysia or Indonesia?

He is probably referring to a situation when (for example), the maid gets arrested or does some damage abroad, or gets injured and is placed in a hospital so he thinks you may be obliged under SG law to help her.

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Re: RE: Re: Domestic Helper going overseas on day off

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 05 Jul 2015 10:41 am

x9200 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:It's what the law says as responsibility of an employer of a maid and repercussions for failing to ensure the welfare and safety of the maid, as "defined by Singapore law"


Why would Singapore law apply in Malaysia or Indonesia?

He is probably referring to a situation when (for example), the maid gets arrested or does some damage abroad, or gets injured and is placed in a hospital so he thinks you may be obliged under SG law to help her.


Morally you should, but legally I don't see how the employer could be obliged outside Singapore. Employer could just tell MOM she absconded to JB.

If Singapore were to hold the employer responsible for the maid's actions while outside of Singapore I would imagine ICA wouldn't let the maid leave the country without the employer's permission.


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