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Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby calugaruvaxile » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 1:58 am

JR8 wrote:Firing off shots at ground level in a residential neighbourhood, and those shots having an unknown stopping point... hmmm. I'm not sure the risk of sending bullets off through posh neighbours windows would be part of an acceptable pre-plan.

Just my 2c of course... anyway who knows...


planting snipers in a posh neighborhood and organizing the ah beng's take-down there, does it sound like a plan? :)

life doesn't always run according to "plan", and sometimes one may need to improvise. surely SPF is best at it.

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby calugaruvaxile » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 2:01 am

ecureilx wrote:
Errr, if you read my post before, you would have noticed, most SG Cops are issued revolvers. Only those Gurkha and Special ops are issued guns with "CLIPS" .. Or I maybe wrong ..

And revolvers are not wildly accurate - somebody disprove me ..


don't take it literally. what i meant was "fire until empty". it doesn't matter how accurate the weapon is in the range. what matters is how accurate you can make it in a real-life situation. and if the target is two carlengths away, you can hit the driver 5/5 with pretty much anything

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 6:53 am

calugaruvaxile wrote:
JR8 wrote:Firing off shots at ground level in a residential neighbourhood, and those shots having an unknown stopping point... hmmm. I'm not sure the risk of sending bullets off through posh neighbours windows would be part of an acceptable pre-plan.

Just my 2c of course... anyway who knows...


planting snipers in a posh neighborhood and organizing the ah beng's take-down there, does it sound like a plan? :)

life doesn't always run according to "plan", and sometimes one may need to improvise. surely SPF is best at it.


Considering the number of Gurkas around the location, I'd say the SPF had a lot of both back up and contingency plans. If they didn't have three lines of defense it would have surprised me. I still don't think he was taken out with handgun fire. I'm more inclined to think rifle and military backup.

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby JR8 » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 9:35 am

calugaruvaxile wrote: it doesn't matter how accurate the weapon is in the range. what matters is how accurate you can make it in a real-life situation. and if the target is two carlengths away, you can hit the driver 5/5 with pretty much anything


Range vs real-life.
Calm, can take your time, breathing controlled, perfect conditions, static target, vs
Stress, bolt of adrenaline, urgency, poor conditions (4.30am), moving target.

I know where I'd rather be to have a hope of a good shot :wink:
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 9:54 am

JR8 wrote:Range vs real-life.
Calm, can take your time, breathing controlled, perfect conditions, static target, vs
Stress, bolt of adrenaline, urgency ...


50 shades of something ? :P

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:05 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Considering the number of Gurkas around the location, I'd say the SPF had a lot of both back up and contingency plans. If they didn't have three lines of defense it would have surprised me. I still don't think he was taken out with handgun fire. I'm more inclined to think rifle and military backup.


Considering the types of VIPs who were there, failing to plant all of the above would be extremely silly. Practically the top of the top in the defense world.

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:13 am

calugaruvaxile wrote:[ and if the target is two carlengths away, you can hit the driver 5/5 with pretty much anything


Have you ever tried it in real life? I have and at a lot closer than two car lengths away and I "almost" missed the intended target and the target was only 4 feet in front of me. Fortunately, I didn't miss but I hit the perp with a load of 'OO from a sawed-off double barrel 12 bore shotgun but still only managed, as I was shooting from behind a hotel front desk, to clear the countertop when I pulled the trigger, but only managed to hit the guy in the right side of the neck which obviously ripped out his jugular vein and everything else to the right of his windpipe. My actual target area from four feet was from chest/nipple height to the top of his head (He was over 6'2) but I didn't have any time to play-play as I was looking down the wrong end of the barrel of an old single shot 12 bore shotgun. I had one split second and I took it and almost missed as I had to fire from the waist as my weapon was lying on the shelf under the counter beside the cash register but out of sight. I grabbed it, took one step back and fired. Had I missed they'd still be picking my pieces out of the key rack behind me.

So, no. I have my doubts if you are aiming at a car speeding towards you and it's only 2 car lengths away, you could hit him once, let along 5/5 unless you have already been blooded in a combat situation. Especially from small arms fire like a handgun. Oh, I was only back from VN 11 months and discharged from active duty 5 months when that happened.

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby bgd » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:36 am

We've gone from localised police action to Dirty Harry via American Sniper. Love it. 8-)

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Re: RE: Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 7:14 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I saw those holes but they didn't look like bullet holes but more like the mounting holes for a rear mounted spoiler often mounted on the back of Imprezas.

On a different picture the "holes" do look like mounts for a spoiler, you are correct!!!!

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby calugaruvaxile » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:35 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
calugaruvaxile wrote:[ and if the target is two carlengths away, you can hit the driver 5/5 with pretty much anything


Have you ever tried it in real life? I have and at a lot closer than two car lengths away and I "almost" missed the intended target and the target was only 4 feet in front of me. Fortunately, I didn't miss but I hit the perp with a load of 'OO from a sawed-off double barrel 12 bore shotgun but still only managed, as I was shooting from behind a hotel front desk, to clear the countertop when I pulled the trigger, but only managed to hit the guy in the right side of the neck which obviously ripped out his jugular vein and everything else to the right of his windpipe. My actual target area from four feet was from chest/nipple height to the top of his head (He was over 6'2) but I didn't have any time to play-play as I was looking down the wrong end of the barrel of an old single shot 12 bore shotgun. I had one split second and I took it and almost missed as I had to fire from the waist as my weapon was lying on the shelf under the counter beside the cash register but out of sight. I grabbed it, took one step back and fired. Had I missed they'd still be picking my pieces out of the key rack behind me.

So, no. I have my doubts if you are aiming at a car speeding towards you and it's only 2 car lengths away, you could hit him once, let along 5/5 unless you have already been blooded in a combat situation. Especially from small arms fire like a handgun. Oh, I was only back from VN 11 months and discharged from active duty 5 months when that happened.


i do agree with you! if you lose your head, you can't hit the target with anything. but considering these guys were trained, i would expect them to keep their heads. yes, i know, i know! little india, you will say - and again you are right. but these people here were supposed to guard vips, so i guess they were way better. or at least i hope

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby calugaruvaxile » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:37 pm

ecureilx wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Considering the number of Gurkas around the location, I'd say the SPF had a lot of both back up and contingency plans. If they didn't have three lines of defense it would have surprised me. I still don't think he was taken out with handgun fire. I'm more inclined to think rifle and military backup.


Considering the types of VIPs who were there, failing to plant all of the above would be extremely silly. Practically the top of the top in the defense world.


but you also wouldn't ambush the ah beng in that area, exactly as you don't want to expose the vip guest to any unforeseen fallout

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:41 pm

It wasn't an ambush, it was a protective cordon around the area surrounding the hotel where all the high level personnel were located. Do you really think that the high level military personnel there would be put off by the extra security measures? I'd say they would be impressed. Especially considering they took out the vehicle with minimal collateral damage.

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby calugaruvaxile » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:50 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It wasn't an ambush, it was a protective cordon around the area surrounding the hotel where all the high level personnel were located. Do you really think that the high level military personnel there would be put off by the extra security measures? I'd say they would be impressed. Especially considering they took out the vehicle with minimal collateral damage.


noo, i'm still trying to understand why did they tried to stop the ah beng there. this pretty much triggered the whole story. the guy didn't look a terrorist to me, so he was no threat to the guests. if they suspected him of other things, they should have discreetly followed him and take him down somewhere else, not start the fireworks there.

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 11:28 pm

You are serious, aren't you! :roll:

How do you know what a terrorist looks like? The guys from the forum who were out drinking with me Friday a week ago might tell you I look like a terrorist what with my full beard and skin head. The 19 year old they picked up for self-radicalization and threatening to kill the Pres. & PM if he couldn't join ISIS looks like a typical 19 year old Malay kid. Three Asians, a 0430 hrs in the morning, ram through a barricade after refusing to open the boot of the vehicle in a area that is crawling with police?

Think about it. If it were drugs, they wouldn't have been in the area in the first place. As they were all Singaporeans, they would have been aware of the high level conference and would know about the security measures out there as it's a common occurence (about once every two years or so), so they would have known to stay away from any road blocks or, looking at the diagrams, I would have though they would have done a u-turn before coming into the diverters in the first place. Therefore, that would only leave one of two options. An innocent driver who was lost or going home somewhere in the vicinity. Or somebody up to no good. You have to remember what event is being held there. If it were an innocent, they would have not had a problem with opening the boot for inspection. But if they were up to no good, they could very well have had the boot filled with explosives. So, when the driver deliberately crashed through the barrier in front of them, that would have signaled to all posts that the vehicle was to be stopped at all costs. The only way to do that was with a head shot to the driver if possible. I believe it was actually a chest shot but nonetheless, it was effective in stopping the vehicle. The fact that they were a couple of morons is besides the point as you have to act on the anticipated action as it is being played out. They did it by the book successfully and the collateral damage was kept to a minimum.

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Re: Man Shot Dead Near Shangri-La Hotel Singapore

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Jun 2015 11:34 pm

calugaruvaxile wrote:noo, i'm still trying to understand why did they tried to stop the ah beng there. this pretty much triggered the whole story. the guy didn't look a terrorist to me, so he was no threat to the guests. if they suspected him of other things, they should have discreetly followed him and take him down somewhere else, not start the fireworks there.


Ah, firstly he wasn't an Ah Beng, he was a Mat !! :P

I lived somewhere, where people found innovative way to self destruct, including a motor bike guy who managed to flip off a armoured 300 SL, and kill all inside. And almost all other delivery folks were everyday normal folks, including a pregnant lady.

So with the security being on high alert, a driver not listening, and then trying to drive off, and then hoping not to get shot, well, that's an extremely wishful thinking.

In other countries, when there is a security cordon, normally there will be a couple of armoured cars with the gun manned, and you will get blasted to bits before you know it. Rather blow the intruder than find out his favorite colours and food, if he can't understnad stop means stop, Vs the driver dead and another injured and the other one not even scratched.

And in Singapore, if you see a security stop with tent etc, you gotta be really off your rocker to not understand that it is not a normal drink/driving check, and there is some serious s**t going on.


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