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Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

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earthfriendly
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Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 1:16 am

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/s ... tor=CS1-10


During a scuffle, you don't have much control over how it will end, despite your best effort. A bit like war zone. So how does one defend yourself against intruders in Malaysia ????

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby x9200 » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 8:29 am

Not enough details but likely the prosecutor sees something wrong in the way they handled the robber after tiding him up.
It is "ok" if they have killed them defending themselves but it is not ok, if they killed him when he was already incapacitated. It is also not ok if they left him to bleed to death.

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 8:43 am

x9200 wrote:Not enough details but likely the prosecutor sees something wrong in the way they handled the robber after tiding him up.
It is "ok" if they have killed them defending themselves but it is not ok, if they killed him when he was already incapacitated. It is also not ok if they left him to bleed to death.


I do agree on that .. the fellow may have been killed later ..

Or died while waiting for the Efficient Malaysian Police to arrive, like an hour later ???

Or does it mean, you should kill the person defending yourself, than hurt him enough and wait for the cops and the fellow dies, you are in bigger trouble ??


PS, years ago, one of our distant relative's friend in KL was held hostage and then was released.

I mentioned that in some other Asian countries, the hostage may have been killed, even after the ransom payment .. the reply from the Malaysians was nice "the cops are defenitely not going to catch the kidnappers don't mindreleasing the hostage alive .. without fear of being caught .. "

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 9:34 am

ecureilx wrote:Or does it mean, you should kill the person defending yourself, than hurt him enough and wait for the cops and the fellow dies, you are in bigger trouble ??


There was a protracted court case some years ago in the UK; 'The Tony Martin Case'. He was a farmer in the country, who was repeatedly being targeted by burglars.

'English law permits one person to kill another in self-defence only if the person defending him or herself uses no more than "reasonable force"; it is the responsibility of the jury to determine whether or not an unreasonable amount of force was used.[13] The jury at the trial were told that they had the option of returning a verdict of manslaughter rather than murder, if they thought that Martin "did not intend to shoot or cause serious bodily harm".[14] However, the jurors found Martin guilty of murder by a 10 to 2 majority.[15]'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

The case was a big thing: 'Tony Martin' became a household name re: the question of a home-owners right to defend himself. The focus being 'You can't just kill a hapless burglar' versus, 'Anyone breaks into my home and I have a right to shoot them dead on the spot, even if they are making their escape'.

So similarly this case might come down to the extent that 'Reasonable force' is considered to have been used.

It'll be a $Big-Ticket day for all the lawyers involved, that's for sure...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 9:42 am

JR8 wrote:It'll be a $Big-Ticket day for all the lawyers involved, that's for sure...


Then again, this not being UK, the case may go in favour of the resident ..

BTW, another old news from PC England :P

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -told.html

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 9:52 am

ecureilx wrote:Then again, this not being UK, the case may go in favour of the resident ..
BTW, another old news from PC England :P [link]


The point of me quoting that was to highlight the core legal consideration in the case, it wasn't a comment on the outcome (which BTW caused large popular outrage).

The article you link is the kind of fodder beloved by the 'Daily Wail'. But you can imagine why, it's like if the SGn state had a law that you can't have glass in any windows, in case a burglar/rapist etc cut himself whilst breaking in...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 10:32 am

They went far beyond self defense I think. For the MY police to even consider charging them they must have some strong evidence of serious damage done.
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the lynx
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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby the lynx » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 10:46 am

Nothing has been said about the cause of death and more importantly. HOW the attacker was managed before and after he was tied up.

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ecureilx
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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 10:54 am

JR8 .. I do read Daily Wail for fun sometimes ..
PNGMK wrote:They went far beyond self defense I think. For the MY police to even consider charging them they must have some strong evidence of serious damage done.

Or maybe MY cops scared somebody did their job ?

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 10:56 am

Any x-border issues in play? The accused are SGns it seems...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:00 am

ecureilx wrote:JR8 .. I do read Daily Wail for fun sometimes ..
PNGMK wrote:They went far beyond self defense I think. For the MY police to even consider charging them they must have some strong evidence of serious damage done.

Or maybe MY cops scared somebody did their job ?


No I don't think so. I suspect the MY cops would not normally over-reach in this situation. There, as I said, must be some good forensic evidence that the chap was tortured/hurt/strangled whatever in a deliberate, planned manner following the successful self-defence. Also we do not know if the alleged burglar (?) was even such a thing - he may have been a former lover, unwanted guest etc.
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Re: Then How Do You Defend Yourself?

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:44 am

PNGMK wrote:. Also we do not know if the alleged burglar (?) was even such a thing - he may have been a former lover, unwanted guest etc.




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