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EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

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iiko
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EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby iiko » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 2:54 am

Recently, I found out I’m pregnant with my Singaporean partner (He is going through a long process to divorce his current spouse because they have children). My Singapore partner is very supportive and he will be responsible as the Father of my child even though he is not legally divorced.

As a woman I’m going through a lot of emotional distress whether I can give birth in Singapore and all the other unknown issues being in a foreign country. We want to keep this baby and the doctors told us that this is miracle pregnancy because of my prior medical complications.

I would like to ask the Forum because I am so new to Singapore:

1) Can I legally give birth in Singapore under my present valid EP?

2) Will my child be a Singapore Citizen even though I am not legally married the Singaporean Father?

3) How does my situation affect my Singaporean Partner because he is not legally divorced yet?

4) Can we raise our child in Singapore and can my child enjoy the benefits as a Singapore citizen during the period when he is going through his divorce?

Thank you so much for reading and any advise is very much appreciated.

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ecureilx
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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 4:29 am

Answers, from what I know :

iiko wrote:1) Can I legally give birth in Singapore under my present valid EP?


Yes

iiko wrote:2) Will my child be a Singapore Citizen even though I am not legally married the Singaporean Father?


Your child will be an SC, by default if delivered in SG, but elsewhere, there is some process to accomplish it. Still he/she will be an SC.

iiko wrote:3) How does my situation affect my Singaporean Partner because he is not legally divorced yet?


interesting .. if your relationship cause of his divorce ? that's gonna be interesting ..

iiko wrote:4) Can we raise our child in Singapore and can my child enjoy the benefits as a Singapore citizen during the period when he is going through his divorce?


Unable to answer that, as it depends on 3 !

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 9:58 am

iiko wrote:Recently, I found out I’m pregnant with my Singaporean partner (He is going through a long process to divorce his current spouse because they have children). My Singapore partner is very supportive and he will be responsible as the Father of my child even though he is not legally divorced.

As a woman I’m going through a lot of emotional distress whether I can give birth in Singapore and all the other unknown issues being in a foreign country. We want to keep this baby and the doctors told us that this is miracle pregnancy because of my prior medical complications.

I would like to ask the Forum because I am so new to Singapore:

2) Will my child be a Singapore Citizen even though I am not legally married the Singaporean Father?

Thank you so much for reading and any advise is very much appreciated.


No, you child will not gain Citizenship based on the father's citizenship because there is no legal relationship there.

https://www.childrensociety.org.sg/reso ... ildren.pdf

"Nadiah has O-level qualifications and stays at home minding her children. She declined to explain why she never married her partner, saying they had "too many problems", such as making ends meet.

He is a Singaporean, but that does not help their three youngest children, because according to the law, it is the mother's citizenship that matters when a child is born out of wedlock."

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 10:00 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:https://www.childrensociety.org.sg/reso ... ildren.pdf

"Nadiah has O-level qualifications and stays at home minding her children. She declined to explain why she never married her partner, saying they had "too many problems", such as making ends meet.

He is a Singaporean, but that does not help their three youngest children, because according to the law, it is the mother's citizenship that matters when a child is born out of wedlock."


Shucks, there goes the Baby Bonus :( :(

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby bgd » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 10:09 am

iiko wrote:
1) Can I legally give birth in Singapore under my present valid EP?



Your EP is tied to your job. Will you be able to keep your job with this pregnancy, or afterwards with a child to look after? If the answer is no then you need to consider on what basis you can continue to reside here.

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby x9200 » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:13 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
iiko wrote:Recently, I found out I’m pregnant with my Singaporean partner (He is going through a long process to divorce his current spouse because they have children). My Singapore partner is very supportive and he will be responsible as the Father of my child even though he is not legally divorced.

As a woman I’m going through a lot of emotional distress whether I can give birth in Singapore and all the other unknown issues being in a foreign country. We want to keep this baby and the doctors told us that this is miracle pregnancy because of my prior medical complications.

I would like to ask the Forum because I am so new to Singapore:

2) Will my child be a Singapore Citizen even though I am not legally married the Singaporean Father?

Thank you so much for reading and any advise is very much appreciated.


No, you child will not gain Citizenship based on the father's citizenship because there is no legal relationship there.

https://www.childrensociety.org.sg/reso ... ildren.pdf

"Nadiah has O-level qualifications and stays at home minding her children. She declined to explain why she never married her partner, saying they had "too many problems", such as making ends meet.

He is a Singaporean, but that does not help their three youngest children, because according to the law, it is the mother's citizenship that matters when a child is born out of wedlock."


Any volunteers to explain where is this claim coming from? Here is the Constitution:

Citizenship by birth
121.
—(1) Subject to this Article, every person born in Singapore after 16th September 1963 shall be a citizen of Singapore by birth.
(2) A person shall not be a citizen of Singapore by virtue of clause (1) if at the time of his birth —
(a)
his father, not being a citizen of Singapore, possessed such immunity from suit and legal process as is accorded to an envoy of a sovereign power accredited to the President;
(b)
his father was an enemy alien and the birth occurred in a place then under the occupation of the enemy; or
(c)
neither of his parents was a citizen of Singapore.
(3) Notwithstanding clause (2)(c), the Government may, where it considers it just and fair and having regard to all the circumstances prevailing at the time of the application, confer citizenship upon a person born in Singapore.

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:47 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporea ... nality_law

Citizenship by birth[edit]
A person is a Singaporean citizen by birth if he or she is born in Singapore with at least one parent who is a Singaporean citizen provided both parents are registered officially as legally married.

However, a child whose father is a foreign diplomat who enjoys immunity in Singapore will not be granted Singaporean citizenship even if his or her mother is Singaporean. The gender-specific language of this clause allows an unusual scenario where a child born in Singapore whose mother is a foreign diplomat and whose father is Singaporean will obtain Singaporean citizenship by birth but not if the gender roles are reversed.

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby x9200 » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:58 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_nationality_law

Citizenship by birth[edit]
A person is a Singaporean citizen by birth if he or she is born in Singapore with at least one parent who is a Singaporean citizen provided both parents are registered officially as legally married.

However, a child whose father is a foreign diplomat who enjoys immunity in Singapore will not be granted Singaporean citizenship even if his or her mother is Singaporean. The gender-specific language of this clause allows an unusual scenario where a child born in Singapore whose mother is a foreign diplomat and whose father is Singaporean will obtain Singaporean citizenship by birth but not if the gender roles are reversed.

Yes, I've seen it but in my humble view of the world's legal order Wikipedia is slightly inferior to the Constitution. I just can not find anything solid confirming it.
Now, ICA has such clause mention but only for the citizenship applications (so by descent or registration). I don't see it reflected in the Constitution neither but at least it is on the ICA webpage.

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 1:44 pm

x9200 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_nationality_law

Citizenship by birth[edit]
A person is a Singaporean citizen by birth if he or she is born in Singapore with at least one parent who is a Singaporean citizen provided both parents are registered officially as legally married.

However, a child whose father is a foreign diplomat who enjoys immunity in Singapore will not be granted Singaporean citizenship even if his or her mother is Singaporean. The gender-specific language of this clause allows an unusual scenario where a child born in Singapore whose mother is a foreign diplomat and whose father is Singaporean will obtain Singaporean citizenship by birth but not if the gender roles are reversed.

Yes, I've seen it but in my humble view of the world's legal order Wikipedia is slightly inferior to the Constitution. I just can not find anything solid confirming it.
Now, ICA has such clause mention but only for the citizenship applications (so by descent or registration). I don't see it reflected in the Constitution neither but at least it is on the ICA webpage.


I'm curious too. The passage from the constitution is a bit difficult to follow since it is in typical convoluted Singapore legalese, but seems to support what you're saying. I would also trust it more than Wikipedia.

But if that WAS true and Wikipedia false, can you imagine how many Geylang Chickens would be poking holes in condoms? :)

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby therat » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 2:00 pm

http://www.sgh.com.sg/Patient-Services/ ... vices.aspx

Birth Registration Services
Documents Required to Register a Birth

Parents/Informants are required to produce the following documents to the Registration Officer when registering births:

Notification of Live Birth (BD 50) issued by a doctor or midwife.
Original identity cards of both parents. (Parents who are non-Singaporeans are required to produce their foreign IC/Passport, entry permit and embarkation/disembarkation cards issued by the Singapore Immigration and Registration Department.)
The parent's original marriage certificate.
A letter of authorisation from the parents of the child, if registration is done by another person other than the parents.

Surname of Child

Any surname of the child to be entered in respect of the registration of the child's birth shall be that of the child's father. In cases where the child is illegitimate and the father is not an informant of the birth, the surname, if any, shall be that of the child's mother.

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby x9200 » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 2:49 pm

Birth registration is something very different than acquiring citizenship by birth. The second is automatic and requires no registration.

Also, just think about this marriage certificate requirements mentioned for the birth registration, does it mean a Singaporean, unmarried woman can not register a birth of her child? C'mon, this list simply does not cover all the cases, only the most common ones.

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby therat » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 4:08 pm

Birth registration is something very different than acquiring citizenship by birth. The second is automatic and requires no registration.


I don't think her child will fall into the second if they are not legally married

x9200 wrote:Also, just think about this marriage certificate requirements mentioned for the birth registration, does it mean a Singaporean, unmarried woman can not register a birth of her child? C'mon, this list simply does not cover all the cases, only the most common ones.


Can register but the child will follow the mother surname.

If the government do not allow the new born to take up the father surname, I do not think they will let the child take up the father citizenship, if the parents are not legally married.

I just telling TS, what is the requirement of registration of the new born?

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby x9200 » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 4:55 pm

Oh sorry I thought you have volunteered in the discussion where is the legal base of the requirement that to get the citizenship by birth the child has to come from a legitimate marriage.

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 5:21 pm

Everything on ICA is very ambiguous if the child is born in Singapore with a SC father and it is out of wedlock. Other cases on ICA's site make a distinction if the child is born overseas and whether they received citizenship by birth in that country or not. Even the application itself calls the spouse details "if applicable". Like all things Singapore, I suspect if the father has a good enough profile (sufficient income and true blue or 'if he registered today, he would be approved') the child's citizenship request will be approved.

Note how spousal details says "if applicable":
http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/do ... rmSCRM.pdf

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Re: EP Holder Pregnant with Married Singaporean

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Mar 2015 6:01 pm

zzm9980 wrote:But if that WAS true and Wikipedia false, can you imagine how many Geylang Chickens would be poking holes in condoms? :)


I reckon that hit it squarely on the head. Also, the initial link I posted was originally in the Bird Cage Liner in May(?) of last year (2014) as well as the link I posted - I originally posted the ST link then found the other link to be safe)


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