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s pass and company problem question

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confusedasalways
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s pass and company problem question

Postby confusedasalways » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:32 pm

*the first few long paragraphs is to describe how messed up the company is*
I just graduated last year from a school in Singapore. I signed a 2 years contract with a company that has bad reputation according to those who worked there before. the reason why there are a lot of people I know worked there is because they hire people so easily because they need them. Honestly, the only thing I heard about them before I joined is they give you a lot of work, which i dont mind, because I was so desperate of not getting a single job offer and was ready to give up. They asked me to sign the contract with them before MOM approve my pass, and because this is my first job, I just agreed to it. They have super ridiculous contract, which is I need to compensate them the remaining of the 2 years if I don't complete the 2 years. I tried to ask and talked to the manager (who interviewed me and offer me the job), tell her I can't agree with that, but she says she can't change the contract and other employees are okay with that. Because I don't want to disappoint my parents who has been waiting for me to get a job for half a year, and because this is my last hope already, I just signed the contract. 1 hour later, I already regretted it, but i can't do anything anyway.. so this happened in december, and I'm supposed to start in January.

In January, I started working, forgot the fact that I haven't had my pass yet, because I also know they really need me to replace the previous person who quit in December. The first week, there were 2 things happened, Idk which one happened first, but one day that week, without me asking, she said that my pass is already approve. and the other day, I asked the manager again about I keep feeling disturbed by that compensation contract, she said to me not to worry and when the time comes, we can negotiate it. by this time, I knew that she is a full of bullshit person, all my co-workers agree, but she's my only superior. The company itself is very messy, they never give me my jobscope or tell me what I'm supposed to do or explain to me about the things in the company. they just asked me to start teaching (its a teaching job).

around mid January, i got email from one of my co-workers that was forwarded from the boss saying that my pass is approved and i need to go for medical check up. the bosses can't even communicate directly to me about this,and a lot of misunderstanding regarding that happened. it dragged until the week after, and I just waited and asking other co-workers why do i need to wait so long after submitting my med checkup.

just last week, something happened. apparently, one employee that the manager hates, (and maybe the bosses too, even though i think he's a nice man), reported them to MOM, idk whats the complain, but he was fired straight away and sent back to his homecountry (this company hire a lot of foreigners, almost no local!) then the next day, the 2 bosses call for a meeting with certain teachers. they never tell us anything about this fired teacher, but now that MOM is investigating them, they want us to take leave. here's why. the 2 bosses own this 3 big companies with a lot of branches around singapore. because of quota problem, the employees in my company are under other 2 companies' name in their pass. so now they are in the process of setting up a holding company, but it means, they say, they will not submit my med check up and the form now, instead they will wait for a few months and submit a new application under a new holding company name.

now, they dont say it directly, but obviously they still want me to continue working without the pass! somehow, my brain only worked after the meeting, so i just realised how dangerous that is after the meeting. I then asked one of my coworkers (since i dont have any way to contact the bosses directly) to tell the bosses that I dont want to do that. the reply that I got is it's not gonna take that long. so after consulting with my friends, they are worried about me too, and ask me to find new job. now, im waiting for the reply from a new company that i went for interview, and i quite positive they will take me in. Because of the contract, I'm trying to ask around and do research whether I can actually leave without any notice and most importantly without paying compensation. I really felt uneasy everyday for the 1 month I worked in this company. howevery, i cant really find any case similar to mine. I just knew recently that usually company applied for pass first and after it gets approved, then theyll give offer letter/contract. i'm scared though, when i tell them that i want to leave, they will not let me leave and threaten me with the contract. or, they will quickly submit my med check up and the form, so im technically bonded with them. also, bcs of their problem with MOM, they fired few teachers so now they are short of teachers. when i asked around, they dont give me a certain answer whether the contract is valid or not. they just said since they havent issued my pass, and dont want to do that for now, then i should have the advantage. also because, everyone i talked to about the 2 years contract+compensation thingy said it doesn't make sense. one even suggested me to ask mom about that, but the other friend say not to go to mom since i've worked illegally. one of my acquaintance's dad work at mom, so i consulted to her also. she said to talk to my bosses about me not wanting to work illegally( because the bosses seems to be understanding, the manager is not), which im gonna do, but i dont think she understands that I want to leave this company and not stay around any longer bcs i cant work with uneasy feeling everyday. i already feel so stressed:/

sorry for the very long story. what do you think? any advice?

AngMoG
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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby AngMoG » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 1:39 pm

confusedasalways wrote:*the first few long paragraphs is to describe how messed up the company is*
I just graduated last year from a school in Singapore. I signed a 2 years contract with a company that has bad reputation according to those who worked there before. the reason why there are a lot of people I know worked there is because they hire people so easily because they need them. Honestly, the only thing I heard about them before I joined is they give you a lot of work, which i dont mind, because I was so desperate of not getting a single job offer and was ready to give up. They asked me to sign the contract with them before MOM approve my pass, and because this is my first job, I just agreed to it. They have super ridiculous contract, which is I need to compensate them the remaining of the 2 years if I don't complete the 2 years. I tried to ask and talked to the manager (who interviewed me and offer me the job), tell her I can't agree with that, but she says she can't change the contract and other employees are okay with that. Because I don't want to disappoint my parents who has been waiting for me to get a job for half a year, and because this is my last hope already, I just signed the contract. 1 hour later, I already regretted it, but i can't do anything anyway.. so this happened in december, and I'm supposed to start in January.

In January, I started working, forgot the fact that I haven't had my pass yet, because I also know they really need me to replace the previous person who quit in December. The first week, there were 2 things happened, Idk which one happened first, but one day that week, without me asking, she said that my pass is already approve. and the other day, I asked the manager again about I keep feeling disturbed by that compensation contract, she said to me not to worry and when the time comes, we can negotiate it. by this time, I knew that she is a full of bullshit person, all my co-workers agree, but she's my only superior. The company itself is very messy, they never give me my jobscope or tell me what I'm supposed to do or explain to me about the things in the company. they just asked me to start teaching (its a teaching job).

around mid January, i got email from one of my co-workers that was forwarded from the boss saying that my pass is approved and i need to go for medical check up. the bosses can't even communicate directly to me about this,and a lot of misunderstanding regarding that happened. it dragged until the week after, and I just waited and asking other co-workers why do i need to wait so long after submitting my med checkup.

just last week, something happened. apparently, one employee that the manager hates, (and maybe the bosses too, even though i think he's a nice man), reported them to MOM, idk whats the complain, but he was fired straight away and sent back to his homecountry (this company hire a lot of foreigners, almost no local!) then the next day, the 2 bosses call for a meeting with certain teachers. they never tell us anything about this fired teacher, but now that MOM is investigating them, they want us to take leave. here's why. the 2 bosses own this 3 big companies with a lot of branches around singapore. because of quota problem, the employees in my company are under other 2 companies' name in their pass. so now they are in the process of setting up a holding company, but it means, they say, they will not submit my med check up and the form now, instead they will wait for a few months and submit a new application under a new holding company name.

now, they dont say it directly, but obviously they still want me to continue working without the pass! somehow, my brain only worked after the meeting, so i just realised how dangerous that is after the meeting. I then asked one of my coworkers (since i dont have any way to contact the bosses directly) to tell the bosses that I dont want to do that. the reply that I got is it's not gonna take that long. so after consulting with my friends, they are worried about me too, and ask me to find new job. now, im waiting for the reply from a new company that i went for interview, and i quite positive they will take me in. Because of the contract, I'm trying to ask around and do research whether I can actually leave without any notice and most importantly without paying compensation. I really felt uneasy everyday for the 1 month I worked in this company. howevery, i cant really find any case similar to mine. I just knew recently that usually company applied for pass first and after it gets approved, then theyll give offer letter/contract. i'm scared though, when i tell them that i want to leave, they will not let me leave and threaten me with the contract. or, they will quickly submit my med check up and the form, so im technically bonded with them. also, bcs of their problem with MOM, they fired few teachers so now they are short of teachers. when i asked around, they dont give me a certain answer whether the contract is valid or not. they just said since they havent issued my pass, and dont want to do that for now, then i should have the advantage. also because, everyone i talked to about the 2 years contract+compensation thingy said it doesn't make sense. one even suggested me to ask mom about that, but the other friend say not to go to mom since i've worked illegally. one of my acquaintance's dad work at mom, so i consulted to her also. she said to talk to my bosses about me not wanting to work illegally( because the bosses seems to be understanding, the manager is not), which im gonna do, but i dont think she understands that I want to leave this company and not stay around any longer bcs i cant work with uneasy feeling everyday. i already feel so stressed:/

sorry for the very long story. what do you think? any advice?


Quoting for posterity.

Long story short:
1) You worked for a company without a valid pass. That is illegal, and both your employer and you would be in trouble if found out.
2) It is not unheard of to start work before the pass is issued, though not strictly speaking legal.
3) While you do not have an approved and issued pass, your contract is not enforceable IMO. Look at the contract, most I've seen would have a clause about that. They can get around this relatively quickly though by having it issued (if indeed it is approved already).
4) You seem to already have an IPA - that means, afaik, that no other company can apply a new pass for you unless the IPA is canceled.

First, I would verify if you have indeed an IPA. Get a copy of it from your company; if they are not willing, you should be able to go to MOM to verify. If you don't have an IPA or pending application, go and join a new employer. If there is an IPA or issued pass, then you will need to negotiate with your current employer. Just know that while they will get into trouble for having people work without valid passes, so will you be in trouble for agreeing to it - which would decrease your chances for being issued a new pass.

There is no easy solution here - you agreed to work without a valid pass, so now your priority should be to get out of this mess without MOM learning about it.

confusedasalways
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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby confusedasalways » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 2:01 pm

thank you so much for your advice. yes, i do have the IPA letter. according to my acquaintance whose father works at mom and also some other friends, its okay to work after it's approved. ya i know its partly my fault, i was so happy to find job, subconsciously agreeing to working without having the pass issued first :cry: it's also my first job thats why i know nothing about it.

AngMoG wrote:3) While you do not have an approved and issued pass, your contract is not enforceable IMO. Look at the contract, most I've seen would have a clause about that. They can get around this relatively quickly though by having it issued (if indeed it is approved already).


what do you mean by this though? they stated in the contract that the starting date will be in January. but the contract doesnt state anything about pass.

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby AngMoG » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 2:08 pm

confusedasalways wrote:thank you so much for your advice. yes, i do have the IPA letter. according to my acquaintance whose father works at mom and also some other friends, its okay to work after it's approved. ya i know its partly my fault, i was so happy to find job, subconsciously agreeing to working without having the pass issued first :cry: it's also my first job thats why i know nothing about it.

AngMoG wrote:3) While you do not have an approved and issued pass, your contract is not enforceable IMO. Look at the contract, most I've seen would have a clause about that. They can get around this relatively quickly though by having it issued (if indeed it is approved already).


what do you mean by this though? they stated in the contract that the starting date will be in January. but the contract doesnt state anything about pass.


Ok, may have learned something about the IPA then. If you have that already, and you got that advise from friends at the MOM, then ok. But there should be some kind of "grace period" - i.e., between start of work and issuance of actual pass. I do not think it would be ok to work on IPA indefinitely.

In that case, the contract may be valid - but since you have worked for > 1 month without issued pass, I am not entirely sure.

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby confusedasalways » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 2:16 pm

Ya, I really hope the contract is not valid, so I can get out of this place. because if i can't, i still dont want to continue working there without a valid pass, but at the same time its very hard to communicate with them and i can not just not coming to work, my friend says they might use that against me. you don't know how tiring it is to work there..idk why i only heard about the bad management after i joined.. so many employees quit or wanting to quit in 1 month since I started working. if it doesnt say how bad the company management is, i dont know what does.. sigh..

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the lynx
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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby the lynx » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 2:30 pm

You should check your IPA then. Does it say that you can work with IPA alone while waiting for the pass? When is the expiry date of the IPA? If it is still valid, you can:

1) quit the company in writing, send an official dated letter and have it e-mailed or mailed so that you have proof of your intention. Do it before the IPA expires, otherwise you're actually working illegally past that point.

2) because you do not have the pass, your contract is not valid. Do not worry about the 2-year payment. You're not even a confirmed staff so normally it is 24-hour notice period (unless your contract says so - but bah, it is not valid without your pass anyway).

3) report to MOM. Tell them the full story - blow by blow. Tell them about their intention to set up subsidiary company name to continue this illegal operation.

Either you do this or not, there is no guarantee that you have better or worse chance getting MOM to approve your visa in the future after this episode. But you have washed your hands clean from this one.

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby confusedasalways » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 2:41 pm

Hi, thank you so much for your reply. Like I mentioned in my first post, I'm scared that if I quit before the IPA expires, they can just submit my med check up+the form so I can't leave the company. but what you say makes sense too.. but after they submit, i still need to go to mom to process it right? so do you think i can just not go until the IPA expires? or after they submit, there's no expiry date anymore?

also, you think that they're setting up a holding company to hold those 3 companies is illegal? i thought its legal..

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby the lynx » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 3:09 pm

confusedasalways wrote:Hi, thank you so much for your reply. Like I mentioned in my first post, I'm scared that if I quit before the IPA expires, they can just submit my med check up+the form so I can't leave the company. but what you say makes sense too.. but after they submit, i still need to go to mom to process it right? so do you think i can just not go until the IPA expires? or after they submit, there's no expiry date anymore?

also, you think that they're setting up a holding company to hold those 3 companies is illegal? i thought its legal..


That's why I ask you to date your resignation letter. So that you can prove that you already resign before they try to submit those things to sabotage you. But please confirm if they have done so before you resign.

Yes after they submit and you go to MOM to do finger-printing and submit photos, you will get the shiny green card. No more IPA. You have obtained the full S Pass. No expiry (unless you are talking about the standard 2-year expiry).

From your story, it was made to sound like it is a loophole they are trying to do. I do not know your company and what their plans are. It could be any tactic - legal or illegal. It can be traced by MOM, or not. But if you do find out and you think they are trying to circumvent the law to hire more cheap foreigners, you should report.

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby confusedasalways » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 3:30 pm

I see. I really2 wish i can get into another company and wont be stuck with them:(
do you probably know how long does it take from the day the submit my med check up to the day they give me the date to go to mom? im thinking since they havent asked me to go to mom, means they havent submitted it. also what do you think would happen if let say they ask me to go to mom, but i never go?

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby the lynx » Tue, 10 Feb 2015 4:17 pm

confusedasalways wrote:I see. I really2 wish i can get into another company and wont be stuck with them:(
do you probably know how long does it take from the day the submit my med check up to the day they give me the date to go to mom? im thinking since they havent asked me to go to mom, means they havent submitted it. also what do you think would happen if let say they ask me to go to mom, but i never go?


This, I have no answer. Sorry. Need someone from HR experience to comment.

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby bumblebee007 » Wed, 11 Feb 2015 5:38 pm

confusedasalways wrote:I see. I really2 wish i can get into another company and wont be stuck with them:(
do you probably know how long does it take from the day the submit my med check up to the day they give me the date to go to mom? im thinking since they havent asked me to go to mom, means they havent submitted it. also what do you think would happen if let say they ask me to go to mom, but i never go?

You can always call mom and ask that after submission how long does it take for the processing to complete in order to collect the pass.

This is a general question they might not even ask your FIN no or anything. Atleast i was not asked when i called mom on a similiar kind of query

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Re: s pass and company problem question

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 12 Feb 2015 2:52 am

the lynx wrote:
confusedasalways wrote:I see. I really2 wish i can get into another company and wont be stuck with them:(
do you probably know how long does it take from the day the submit my med check up to the day they give me the date to go to mom? im thinking since they havent asked me to go to mom, means they havent submitted it. also what do you think would happen if let say they ask me to go to mom, but i never go?


This, I have no answer. Sorry. Need someone from HR experience to comment.


within 3 days, once an appointment has been set, and document submitted, MOM will courier back the pass now, within 3 days, and they will only handover to the person to whom the pass is addressed to or authorised, i.e. HR !

as for they asking you to go, but not going, are you on to something ?

Of course, the pass will be in a limbo and will expire as the IPA has a validity period


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