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Employment Pass rejected, reasons?

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nakatago
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Re: Employment Pass rejected, reasons?

Postby nakatago » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 6:19 am

JR8 wrote:Why go from Uni > MBA, and never have worked? How can you be a 'master' of something you've no actual experience of?


Because of a flawed system:

* a lot of companies outsource recruitment to agencies
* agency is given spec list of who they want
* someone's too lazy to read someone's experience section so they use filtering software or just look for keywords
* some of those keywords include master's degree, including MBA
* this goes on for years
* new grad wanting to improve his chances, enrols in a masters program right away after graduating, thinking getting a job first is a waste of time
* new grad gets his masters, thinks he wants to work in Singapore believing he has an advantage because of his master's degree
* new grad posts on singapore expats forum
* we see his post, he gets taken down several pegs down

You can also substitute master's degrees with:
* PHP
* Mobile (Android, iOS)
* Scala
* LAMP
* Python
* Big Data
* whatever trendy set of skills is popular today with companies jumping on the bandwagon

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Re: Employment Pass rejected, reasons?

Postby midlet2013 » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 9:58 am

Industry prefers people with 2 years relevant experience rather than 2 yrs Masters with no experience. Mostly, bcus no one has the ability to guide. They need someone who already knows the job. This does not mean that someone with 2 yrs experience is actually a bigger talent than someone who spent the 2 yrs in univ. So, the preference is not for talent, but for cost effectiveness and lack of ability to lead. Anyways, most of them know that in 2 yrs time, the employee mite leave.

I am not saying that one shd go from Uni->MBA. All I said was that in India, lots of people do that.

After my grad studies, my only options were in some R&D type organization which I did not want. So I left SG for few years and now that we are back, there are much better options. So, yes, experience counts a lot here. But dont confuse some experience with talent.




JR8 wrote:@Midlelt. My 2c.
SG wants 'foreign talent', not foreign people coming here to take their first job and then learn how to do it. Doesn't matter how many paper qualifications you have.

Why go from Uni > MBA, and never have worked? How can you be a 'master' of something you've no actual experience of?

You can't get most jobs based on paper-based qualifications alone. The 'most' might become 'any' if it involves moving to SG seeking work, since you're qualified for nothing beyond perhaps an intern visa.

People should establish their careers, and then when they have unique and/or valuable talents to sell, then seek to profit from them in places where those talents are in short supply.

I'm sure the Law of Supply and Demand is taught as a part of MBA's.

I think a downside of taking an MBA is that's it's usually pitched as being 'the keys to the kingdom'. But there you are say 24/25, think you know everything, but have never worked. The trouble with that can be there are heaps of 20, or even 18 year olds that can do everything expected and required of them, that you haven't the first clue about (so how could you ever 'manage' them?). Plus they don't come with the ridiculously puffed-up salary expectations that most young MBA grads appear to have. So, if you're in that boat, you're f-f-f-f.... er, holed below the waterline aren't you?

The wiser route IMO, though less glamorous to an impressionable student... If you're heading towards management:

- graduate in a relevant skill.
- if applicable, take a professional qualification (ACCA/CIMA etc)
- get a job. Do it for a few years. Master it.
- hopefully become a supervisor, and perhaps later a manager.
- when, and only when, you're looking at moving up to director level, THEN do an MBA, preferably with your company's sponsorship/support, and only if it's 100% proven as a prerequisite, or sure hand up to greater things.

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Re: Employment Pass rejected, reasons?

Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 11:21 am

JR8 wrote:I think a downside of taking an MBA is that's it's usually pitched as being 'the keys to the kingdom'. But there you are say 24/25, think you know everything, but have never worked. The trouble with that can be there are heaps of 20, or even 18 year olds that can do everything expected and required of them, that you haven't the first clue about (so how could you ever 'manage' them?). Plus they don't come with the ridiculously puffed-up salary expectations that most young MBA grads appear to have. So, if you're in that boat, you're f-f-f-f.... er, holed below the waterline aren't you?

The wiser route IMO, though less glamorous to an impressionable student... If you're heading towards management:

- graduate in a relevant skill.
- if applicable, take a professional qualification (ACCA/CIMA etc)
- get a job. Do it for a few years. Master it.
- hopefully become a supervisor, and perhaps later a manager.
- when, and only when, you're looking at moving up to director level, THEN do an MBA, preferably with your company's sponsorship/support, and only if it's 100% proven as a prerequisite, or sure hand up to greater things.


+1 for routing....... I say that only because it's the way I did it :P though still without an MBA. Yes it takes time but it's far more interesting and fun.

I'm of the personal belief, however, that with everybody doing MBAs there is little in the scope for "free thinking" and I see the same Muppet thinking everyday. Study spreadsheet upon spreadsheet without studying marketplace or product and it's a fair bet that it's those that studied MBAs that screwed the economies of the planet in the last and current financial crisis.

You can see I don't have such a high opinion about that particular "qualification" as one. [-(
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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Re: Employment Pass rejected, reasons?

Postby JR8 » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 12:10 pm

I've seen it both ways.

The route I outlined, where many of those were (as a result) at MD/SVP level in Wall street banks. Kudos to them, I worked for two such people, and they were wonderful, truly inspiring leaders.

And, the MBA interns, who I was annually required to hire and supervise. Who, if they were on the payroll would have been fired on the spot, for the likes of plain refusing to do, or bitching about photocopying (that everyone below the above MD/SVP grades had to do for themselves) that they deemed to be beneath them.

You have to run with the tribe, go with the flow, adjust to the local culture. A stuck-up 25 year old who refuses to do photocopying is going nowhere, since they will never be 'tribe'. [Neither will an Indian drummer parading down Serangoon Road... hehe...]

There is a parallel with some recent UK grads, where everyone now seems to delay adulthood by going to university for as prolonged a period as is possible. Then when they finally leave, they expect the moon on a stick, the world on a plate. 'But I've got a Masters in Surfboard Studies from East Croydon Polytechnic you know, I'm qualified to be Head of FX at Megabank Inc!'


Expectations promised by the salesman, meet reality.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard


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