Outrageous? Residents pay to use facility in condo?

[nakatago]

Excellent , can I request a document showing my movements in the past month

EZ-Link card, SIM card, ... they already know where you are. Probably know what you're likely to be having for dinner too.

With access to the SIM card location history (you don't even need a smartphone), credit card purchases not to mention CCTV footage even I can do it, even what color shirt you wore when you had that dinner.

Data's all there; you just need someone to read the tea leaves right.

[JR8]

@Bgd: Maybe I'm conflating Julian Assange with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Shane_Todd

[PNGMK]

MCST's are often in for a rude shock when the condo transitions from the developer management (under TOP) to the MC management - a lot of developers subsidize freebies to get purchasers in and the MC takes this for granted but one the developer is out... well then the MC has the problem of meeting all those costs with a limited number of owners.

This does seem extreme to me but may well be the wave of the future. The thinking is that if some residents are never or rarely using a facility why should they pay for it's upkeep.

[maneo]

@Bgd: Maybe I'm conflating Julian Assange with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Shane_Todd

Yes, it appears you are confusing unrelated things this time.

[maneo]

I had a conversation with a group of friends who live in Reflections@Keppel Bay. They were fuming mad because of a new rule by the management that all residents have to pay $30 (non-refundable) to use BBQ pit, on top of the $200 deposit (refundable). Previously, only $200 deposit was required to book the pit and there was already an existing rule that a resident can only book a pit once a month.

They already had to pay $1 each way for the shuttle bus between the condo and Harbourfront Centre since last year. Previously it was for free and the shuttle bus included stops at Telok Blangah MRT station. Now they killed that stop and it is just Harbourfront.

And residents also have to pay $50 to use multi-purpose hall, on top of that usual $200 deposit.
...
I've never heard of a condo that does that to residents. Is it outrageous? Or is it actually more common than I thought?

Yes, other condοs do charge fees for using facilities.

if some residents are never or rarely using a facility why should they pay for it's upkeep.

These fees are usually to cover the cost of labour for set-up before and clean-up after, not for general upkeep.

The deposits are refundable, unless there is some extraordinary cost for repairing damage, etc.

[Brah]

I had a conversation with a group of friends who live in Reflections@Keppel Bay. They were fuming mad because of a new rule by the management that all residents have to pay $30 (non-refundable) to use BBQ pit, on top of the $200 deposit (refundable). Previously, only $200 deposit was required to book the pit and there was already an existing rule that a resident can only book a pit once a month.

They already had to pay $1 each way for the shuttle bus between the condo and Harbourfront Centre since last year. Previously it was for free and the shuttle bus included stops at Telok Blangah MRT station. Now they killed that stop and it is just Harbourfront.

And residents also have to pay $50 to use multi-purpose hall, on top of that usual $200 deposit.

Next they might install a EZ-link card reader at the entrance of gym and tennis courts to charge per entrance to use the gym and tennis courts. Not sure if they are going to pull it off for the pools as well.

I've never heard of a condo that does that to residents. Is it outrageous? Or is it actually more common than I thought?

Ours is $50 to use the BBQ, it's been like that forever. They started the deposit thing possibly after people like me complained at how they stayed past the agreed shutdown time and carried on noisily into the night with no regard for their neighbors, which week after week, gets pretty trying. That deposit means you don't get it back if there are complaints, and that is a good rule.

The multi-purpose hall is the same.

They are also now carding the gym to keep out non-residents, also a good thing, but there is no cost to use it or the other facilities.

We don't get any shuttles so sounds like they still have it better in that regard.

[Addadude]

[quote="PNGMK"]MCST's are often in for a rude shock when the condo transitions from the developer management (under TOP) to the MC management - a lot of developers subsidize freebies to get purchasers in and the MC takes this for granted but one the developer is out... well then the MC has the problem of meeting all those costs with a limited number of owners. quote]

This. Check the fine print of any new condo development that boasts about a shuttle bus service. You'll see that it always states that the service is subsidized by the developer for limited period after the TOP and charges may apply later, subject to the MCST.

As I mentioned, it is standard for the maintenance of the facilities to be factored into the rent that the tenant pays therefore eliminating the need for usage charges. (It's not always overtly stated in your lease agreement though.) As PNGMK points out, when projects are not fully sold the management fees per owner increases and, if owner is not willing to pay, guess what happens?

[movingtospore]

Well, this may turn out to be quite short sighted for Reflections. There are many, many vacant units across the Island and rents have been dropping like a stone. So as a prospective tenant, are you going to rent there? I think not.

Typical.

[x9200]

Well, this may turn out to be quite short sighted for Reflections. There are many, many vacant units across the Island and rents have been dropping like a stone. So as a prospective tenant, are you going to rent there? I think not.

Typical.

I am not that sure. The apartment for myself is far more important than a BBQ pit (which I may use like twice a year or not at all) but it would be a different story if I intended to use a gym or a swimming pool daily and had to pay for them.

Another problem is, surely nobody informs the prospective tenants upfront about such charges. This would be an interested thing to demand some compensation from the LL.

[JR8]

I believe it is assumed that the terms of the condo and how it runs are promulgated within any Tenancy Agreement. If so, it's up to any tenant to determine things like 'usage charges'.

[Rumpel]

Have to say these charges for BBQ pit or function room are quite common.
And a fee of $50 is in-line with what other condos are charging for this.

[x9200]

I believe it is assumed that the terms of the condo and how it runs are promulgated within any Tenancy Agreement. If so, it's up to any tenant to determine things like 'usage charges'.

Typically the managements regulations are in the TA in the context of the adherence to the regulations. Extra charges seem to be a different category and outside the standard condo T&C, only (for the tenants) announced on info boards.

Let's probe some more extreme situation. Say, I rented a condo with an olympic size swimming pool, 20 bbq pits, a gym, a children playground etc etc and after moving in I discovered that none of these facilities are available to the tenants, and yes, the information about it was posted something like 6 months earlier on the management board and sent by post to the LLs. Still legally ok?

[zzm9980]

EZ-link card readers everywhere would be a great idea ..... Full tracking in place , now Govt can see where you are in your free time as well....

They are already all over the place. They just don't "beep" and charge you as you walk past and get recorded.

Excellent , can I request a document showing my movements in the past month

I've posted this before. Read between the lines, or ask someone who understand how this technology works over a beer (or latte, if it is me):

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... ance_state

[zzm9980]

Well, this may turn out to be quite short sighted for Reflections. There are many, many vacant units across the Island and rents have been dropping like a stone. So as a prospective tenant, are you going to rent there? I think not.

Typical.

They care about prospective owners. No shits are given for prospective tenants. Those owns probably care about keeping their costs down, not if their tenant needs to pay extra to use the BBQ.

[zzm9980]

Well, this may turn out to be quite short sighted for Reflections. There are many, many vacant units across the Island and rents have been dropping like a stone. So as a prospective tenant, are you going to rent there? I think not.

Typical.

I am not that sure. The apartment for myself is far more important than a BBQ pit (which I may use like twice a year or not at all) but it would be a different story if I intended to use a gym or a swimming pool daily and had to pay for them.

Another problem is, surely nobody informs the prospective tenants upfront about such charges. This would be an interested thing to demand some compensation from the LL.

My landlord actually handed me the condo rule book and encouraged me to read it before signing the TA. He pointed out a few things. Nothing in there was shocking though.