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No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30pm?

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:56 am

earthfriendly wrote:http://therealsingapore.com/content/dear-everyone-i-am-one-3-men-arrested-during-thaipusam-playing-music

After reading through this article, I still don't know the reason why they aren't allowed to play their music. The temple disallowed it because that was the order from the authority. But why doesn't the authority allow it :???: ? I saw this comment.


"Dr Goh Ken Swee set up the SSO because he did not want Singapore to become a soulless society. Will break Dr. Goh's heart if he were alive to see this incident. " Alfred Hong


The key take-away is that they did NOT get arrested for playing their drums, but for punching police officers.

Also note that it was random freelancers trying to play the drums at a ceremony where the temple officials didn't invite them. While those officials imply the police said it, no where did you ever actually hear it was the police.

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 08 Feb 2015 10:34 am

JR8 wrote:Perhaps it got stamped on because Indians are the latest '''non-pivotal''' racial stomping-victim group de jour.

It was Caucasians a few months ago. So the wheel turns....


did you miss something, like .... Barnsley did ?

Those who are into Thai Pusam are the natives, not the imports

or did I miss something in your post ???

btw, the Local Chinese and Malays are all in support of the Indians and the playing of the drums, not otherwise ..

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby JR8 » Sun, 08 Feb 2015 11:56 am

ecureilx wrote:or did I miss something in your post ???
btw, the Local Chinese and Malays are all in support of the Indians and the playing of the drums, not otherwise ..


I appreciate that the participants are local, I wrote 'non-pivotal' ethnic group as I wasn't sure how else to indirectly make the point I was trying to. 'Non-majority'?, 'Non-the ethnicity of the largest country in the world', 'Non-considering the number 8 lucky'... :-k :wink:

Interesting first-hand article from TRS...

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 08 Feb 2015 10:20 pm

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... 44594.html

Rather unfortunate and quite tricky situation.
Last edited by Wd40 on Thu, 19 Feb 2015 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 08 Feb 2015 11:02 pm

Wd40 wrote:http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/wife-of-man-charged-over/1644594.html

Rather unfortunate and quite tricky situation. They will need to tread this very carefully. Its locals involved and not foreigners like the last 2 incidents, the bus strike and the riot in L.I.


True. I personally think they need to consider revoking or at least stop renewing the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_L ... ngapore%29 which frankly is an unjust imposition on freedoms in Singapore and perhaps miused IMPO. This is the act that bans foot processions and public assemblies amongst other things. First world country? First world freedoms then.
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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby Barnsley » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 12:26 am

ecureilx wrote:
JR8 wrote:Perhaps it got stamped on because Indians are the latest '''non-pivotal''' racial stomping-victim group de jour.

It was Caucasians a few months ago. So the wheel turns....


did you miss something, like .... Barnsley did ?

Those who are into Thai Pusam are the natives, not the imports

or did I miss something in your post ???

btw, the Local Chinese and Malays are all in support of the Indians and the playing of the drums, not otherwise ..


I am confused , if the drumming has been banned since 1973 , I suspect that 90%+ of the folks taking part have never had drums at Thaipusam in Singapore , therefore what is making them want to have drums now , if its not overseas Hindus driving this?
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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby JR8 » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 9:54 am

@PNG
Curious one eh. Per the link....
'The Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act (often known by the abbreviation "CLTPA") is a Singapore statute that, among other things, allows the executive branch of the Government of Singapore to order that suspected criminals be detained without trial. It was introduced in 1955 during the colonial era and intended to be a temporary measure, but has been renewed continuously. The validity of the Act was most recently extended in November 2013, and it will remain in force till 20 October 2019. According to the Government, the Act is only used as a last resort when a serious crime has been committed and a court prosecution is not possible because witnesses are unwilling or afraid to testify in court.....'

It's not clear how a pre-authorised religious procession can morph into a 'serious crime' requiring a 'last resort' law. :???:

What next, rendition to Sentosa for anyone playing a drum in public? X-ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chia_Thye_Poh
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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 10:06 am

Barnsley wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
JR8 wrote:Perhaps it got stamped on because Indians are the latest '''non-pivotal''' racial stomping-victim group de jour.

It was Caucasians a few months ago. So the wheel turns....


did you miss something, like .... Barnsley did ?

Those who are into Thai Pusam are the natives, not the imports

or did I miss something in your post ???

btw, the Local Chinese and Malays are all in support of the Indians and the playing of the drums, not otherwise ..


I am confused , if the drumming has been banned since 1973 , I suspect that 90%+ of the folks taking part have never had drums at Thaipusam in Singapore , therefore what is making them want to have drums now , if its not overseas Hindus driving this?

Short reply ...drums help those carrying the heavy kavadi and body piercing to lower the pain by getting them into a trance like state

I hope you know the body piercing for kavadi

Drums were and still are part of the ritual among the south Indian folks who still continue the practice

In Singapore the local south Indian .. or majority both Indians have been asking for more recognition of Thai pusam for more than 10 years ... as out of the 2 Hindu holidays one is Deepawali which is not so hot among south Indians, in a way, vs Thai pusam and ... Vesak is actually Buddhist festival

Those Thai pusam fans have been slipping drums in to mentally support the kavadi bearers I believe and it just had to happen ...

A majority are just asking the Endowment board to be just and amend the rules, than sticking to antique rules

The drummers in this case were paid by a kavadi bearer.. not a gate crasher ..

That's what I know so far

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby JR8 » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 10:34 am

I was sitting on the balcony earlier, pondering the day over an espresso and an demon little cheroot.

There is a bus stop in view on one side of the road, and a large office building on the other side. Foot traffic between the two is significant at the 9 and 5 hours.

If only one person is crossing, they will wait until the road is clear of traffic before doing so. Or they might cross half way and then wait on the road divider until the way over the other half is clear.

But if there is a cluster of people wishing to cross, maybe three or more people, then they are noticeably more brazen. This seems to be in proportion to the size of the group. Then they appear to assume some kind of collective power, 'strength in numbers'? If say a cluster of 5 are crossing, then they take the dominant position and cross even in the face of oncoming traffic, which has to slow down to let them safely pass.

Perhaps there is a parallel in why minority groups that have such 'collective power' are diluted here. 1960s Kampong clearance for example. Can Little India expect to get it in the neck? It already has gone part way down this route by being turned into something of a controlled sub-zone.

Kampong Glam is quite a shadow and pastiche of what it once must have been. What next, Little India > 'Indiapore - The Experience', Mustafa demolished and rebuilt in a slightly more sane and tidy version, yet still 'An incredible day out for all the family, experience the unruly chaos of yesteryear', $88 entry fee with early-bird specials, goody-bags with limited edition 'Hello Kitti' dolls?
Last edited by JR8 on Mon, 09 Feb 2015 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 10:43 am

Documentary about Thaipusam: http://youtu.be/mYDlhE4LJBk

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 11:36 am

what all this reminds me of, is this dialogue between Keanu Reeves and Al Pacino

John Milton :
I want you to be yourself. You know, I'll tell you, boy. Guilt - it's like a bag of freak' bricks. All you gotta do is set it down....Who are you carrying all those bricks for anyway? God? Is that it? God? Well, I tell ya, let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do? I swear, for His own amusement, His own private cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look, but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Aha ha ha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is He doin'? He's laughin' His sick, freak' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never!


sounds strangely familiar does it ?
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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 12:20 pm

So I'm confused. Which kinds of drums were causing the problems? I found this video of the same festival last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB6C9gN60Pg

You heard really loud drums while in the temple, but then quieter drums on the public street. Is that what these guys did that caused the incident? Or did they have the loud obnoxious drums on the road too?

What is the actual law on the drums anyway? Banned everywhere? or just in public places? There are a lot of comparisons to the Lion dances, but at least those happen in private places and end after 5-10 minutes.

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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby Barnsley » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 12:36 pm

ecureilx wrote:Short reply ...drums help those carrying the heavy kavadi and body piercing to lower the pain by getting them into a trance like state

I hope you know the body piercing for kavadi

Drums were and still are part of the ritual among the south Indian folks who still continue the practice

In Singapore the local south Indian .. or majority both Indians have been asking for more recognition of Thai pusam for more than 10 years ... as out of the 2 Hindu holidays one is Deepawali which is not so hot among south Indians, in a way, vs Thai pusam and ... Vesak is actually Buddhist festival

Those Thai pusam fans have been slipping drums in to mentally support the kavadi bearers I believe and it just had to happen ...

A majority are just asking the Endowment board to be just and amend the rules, than sticking to antique rules

The drummers in this case were paid by a kavadi bearer.. not a gate crasher ..

That's what I know so far


Easy on the patronising fella!

Just trying to understand the issue , and why its blown up this year when I havent heard a thing in the almost 7 years I have been here.

Whilst not a connoisseur of body piercing I am aware of what it entails as I have been a couple of times to the temples to see the guys get "pierced" , I also followed them on the streets for a while. I dont recall there being drums on the streets then , maybe I forget as its 3 or 4 years ago now since I last went, also it was at night so that might be why there will less drums.
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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 1:32 pm

JR8 wrote:@PNG
Curious one eh. Per the link....
'The Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act (often known by the abbreviation "CLTPA") is a Singapore statute that, among other things, allows the executive branch of the Government of Singapore to order that suspected criminals be detained without trial. It was introduced in 1955 during the colonial era and intended to be a temporary measure, but has been renewed continuously. The validity of the Act was most recently extended in November 2013, and it will remain in force till 20 October 2019. According to the Government, the Act is only used as a last resort when a serious crime has been committed and a court prosecution is not possible because witnesses are unwilling or afraid to testify in court.....'

It's not clear how a pre-authorised religious procession can morph into a 'serious crime' requiring a 'last resort' law. :???:

What next, rendition to Sentosa for anyone playing a drum in public? X-ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chia_Thye_Poh


The CLTA is a big hammer that gets used for very small nuts from what I have observed. Sometimes I feel that because of it Singapore sometimes is under martial law.
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Re: No more public drinking and retail of alcohol post 10.30

Postby JR8 » Mon, 09 Feb 2015 5:22 pm

zzm9980 wrote:So I'm confused. Which kinds of drums were causing the problems? ...
What is the actual law on the drums anyway? Banned everywhere? or just in public places? There are a lot of comparisons to the Lion dances, but at least those happen in private places and end after 5-10 minutes.


Private places? It seems not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZWTQorM_c
'Grand funeral procession in Singapore April 2009'
Wind to 2:45, and then peaking at c4:45... and 6:00 onwards

I'm sure we've all witnessed such things before. All perfectly legal.

Or the Lion Dancers' trucks going by, at times several groups of them every day... who knows why they perform in their trucks en route to their destinations, perhaps to bring joy to the neighbourhood they're passing through?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03oVBHYXbS0
'Lion dance truck 2'
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