Singapore Expats Forum

EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
shah_ankitb
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 10 Dec 2013

EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby shah_ankitb » Sat, 10 Jan 2015 3:33 pm

Hello Friends,

I'm EP Holder. I applied for PR with Form 4A.

In that form there is one page which company needs to fill up.

Now company refuse to fill & sign that form. Still can i apply for PR?

What are the alternatives. (if any)

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3911
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:21 am

The chances of getting PR are anyways so low these days, If I were you, I wouldn't sour relations with my employer over this. You can apply without the endorsement of the employer or you can look for a better employer and then apply for PR.

shah_ankitb
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 10 Dec 2013

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby shah_ankitb » Sun, 11 Jan 2015 9:48 am

Thanks for reply.

If i that one page is still not filled up. Still i can apply?

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby JR8 » Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:55 am

shah_ankitb wrote:Thanks for reply.
If i that one page is still not filled up. Still i can apply?


IIRC this question with the same circumstances came up before, perhaps 4-6 months ago. I think in that case it was triggered by a PR applicant who hadn't discussed the matter with his HR. When he asked them to complete the form - and when they were handed an effective fait accompli* re: his future CPF contributions, they refused to do so.

Why do your HR decline to complete the form?

An option might be to leave the page blank and state that your employer declines to complete it, on either XYZ grounds (their answer per previous paragraph above), or for unknown reasons. My feeling is that this situation is perhaps not as unusual as you fear.


i.e. 'A finished task', i.e. he effectively tried to force a pay-rise via additional CPF contributions upon his employer.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

shah_ankitb
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 10 Dec 2013

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby shah_ankitb » Sun, 11 Jan 2015 11:00 am

Hi,

They are saying this form is asking for confidential information of company. That we can't reveal. Like last 3 years financial status & all that.

They are asking to give X years of commitment to company. Which i can't do.

I leave that company page blank (withing Form). And in one blank page.

I will write that company is not giving information due to X reason & submit to ICA.

I hope it works !!! Is it right??

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5419
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 11 Jan 2015 7:50 pm

shah_ankitb wrote:Hi,

They are saying this form is asking for confidential information of company. That we can't reveal. Like last 3 years financial status & all that.

They are asking to give X years of commitment to company. Which i can't do.

I leave that company page blank (withing Form). And in one blank page.

I will write that company is not giving information due to X reason & submit to ICA.

I hope it works !!! Is it right??


This is not at all unusual now. Basically what the internal meetings on this (which I've been privy too) are along the lines of;

1. Additional costs (usually the opposite if the applicant is a fully found expat - we cut their housing etc the day they get PR - yay!).
2. Is this person a suitable PR for the company...? what we mean by this is that the applicant is indicating that they want to stay in Singapore... and probably with us. This is where I see thumb downs happening - if we are not sure we need that person in Singapore the inclination is to say sod it and not approve. The younger guys who can add value to our Singapore operations get the nod usually but we have recently approved an older brit because he had a Sinky wife and we figured he was going to be around for a decade and then retire.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3911
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 11 Jan 2015 9:33 pm

Please reveal your company name as well, so that we remember not to ever apply there. :) kidding

I think I remember you mentioning your company doesn't do employment verification also. Sounds like your HR dept is from hell :)

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5419
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 12 Jan 2015 3:22 pm

Wd40 wrote:Please reveal your company name as well, so that we remember not to ever apply there. :) kidding

I think I remember you mentioning your company doesn't do employment verification also. Sounds like your HR dept is from hell :)



Sounds like our HR dept does what the managers (i.e. the guys who generate the Profit) want them to do rather than thinking they run the show.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34789
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 12 Jan 2015 3:38 pm

It doesn't make a sod's worth of difference whether you attach the Annex A or not. ICA realizes that most PR's don't have any sense of courtesy or loyalty whatsoever and will leave usually within 6 months of obtaining PR with or without an Annex A having been filed. Therefore the majority of companies don't bother as they know they are just helping the employee to leave them in the lurch. Can't say as I blame them, frankly. I will fill out the Annex A for an EP holder anytime provided they are at least on their first EP/S pass renewal. I will not for those who are still on their initial EP.

shah_ankitb
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 10 Dec 2013

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby shah_ankitb » Mon, 12 Jan 2015 9:02 pm

Thanks for your all feedback.

midlet2013
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed, 13 Nov 2013

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby midlet2013 » Fri, 23 Jan 2015 6:33 am

A person who gets PR would not leave if he thought things were reasonable. But the fact is most people on the first EP get at least some sort of raw deal especially those from Asian countries. Not filling the form just goes to show that the employer's know they cannot compete in the market for the same employee unless he/she is under the fear of losing EP.

If a person is treated fairly, encouraged to become PR and given fair deal, he may not leave. Assuming that the guy will anyways leave, so screw him n get 2-3 years of work. I guess such employers deserve no loyalty in the first place.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34789
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 23 Jan 2015 8:31 am

midlet2013 wrote:A person who gets PR would not leave if he thought things were reasonable. But the fact is most people on the first EP get at least some sort of raw deal especially those from Asian countries. Not filling the form just goes to show that the employer's know they cannot compete in the market for the same employee unless he/she is under the fear of losing EP.

If a person is treated fairly, encouraged to become PR and given fair deal, he may not leave. Assuming that the guy will anyways leave, so screw him n get 2-3 years of work. I guess such employers deserve no loyalty in the first place.


Not true. Most who are "able" to get PR are already being paid more than market. The problem is that a lot of them have an over-inflated sense of worth or ego problems (kind of like a new local graduate in both respects). So, as soon as they get their PR thinking they are dog's gift to Singapore because they were granted PR so they jump ship only to usually end up in a similar position for similar or even less money. (Not always of course, but more often than not).

User avatar
martincymru
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu, 16 Oct 2008
Location: out & about

Re: EP Holder. Apply for PR. Company refuse to sign form.

Postby martincymru » Fri, 23 Jan 2015 2:36 pm

The form does ask for sensitive info.

But does the info influence the success of the PR application? If not then why ask?

I believe this was the OP's question.

Not really. It's a carryover from earlier days when it was considered necessary. In a similar vein, the PR re-entry permit for years had the ability to tick one of two boxes, either a 10 year renewal or a 5 year renewal. Rarely was a 10 year renewal given and both I and OSOD were some of the last to be given a 10 year renewal. since then they have only been giving 5 year renewals but didn't change the form until last year. The annex A used to be required, but after realizing what employers were doing, and the linking up of databases, it was easy enough to ascertain if working by going to the master database to check with IRAS for tax returns and MOM for a current EP.

The form doesn't as for anything that cannot be found by Joe Public visiting ACRA and purchasing a download of a company's financial report for the current year.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest