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Amazon Server EC2

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Aragorn2000
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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby Aragorn2000 » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 9:13 am

ecureilx wrote:
Aragorn2000 wrote:What is LMS?

If you only need corporate email and other common services, try Google Apps for Work. It's cheap and reliable.

Gmail for Business used to be free but they now charge $10 per person per month.


at 10$ per person, it's still cheap !!

LMS - Learning Management System ?? :)


I worded my post wrongly. $10 is cheap!
I just wanted to say Gmail for Business is now part of that $10/person/month bundle that includes all Google Apps.

I have a VPS with servermania.com at 88 USD/year.

RAM: 4 GB
Disk Space: 150 GB RAID
Bandwidth: 4000 GB
IP Addresses: 4 IP Addresses

It's so cheap I don't know whether it's scam or not. I'm not using it for anything serious though. It's just a dev server running RabbitMQ and Gemfire.

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 10:28 am

x9200 wrote:zzm, this Digital Ocean, how it could be that cheap running on ssds? Is it a realistic price?
It looks like for each droplet what you get is a static IP, how this is possible? I mean, IPv4 is not that accomodating and normally you have to pay extra for a static IP.
Also, how long are you with them?


Recently I met some guys who are into Online Transactions, and they are all IT startups, turning in revenue in around a million $ a month

they all had this to say

"without Amazon, our business model would have never picked up, and truly years ago, such an operation was not in existence"

Amazon has got their costs under control, and so far, their business model is working fine

And, a lot of their service are built of open source, and that is major benefit, if you understand how much Open Source has come.

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby x9200 » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:52 am

ecureilx, I am not sure if we are talking about the same thin. I don't think it is about Amazon - I would have always picked up a dedicated server based solution but earlier, they were only dedicated hardware based solutions = very expensive. Now what Amazon or DO have to offer are basically VM dedicated servers and I don't see clear link of VM development to Amazon (is there such?). This is IMHO not about the bussiness model.

Maybe I am wrong but for me it seems more related to development of VMs platforms and cloud computing (leaving aside slowly dropping prices of the storage media).

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 1:29 pm

x9200 wrote:ecureilx, I am not sure if we are talking about the same thin. I don't think it is about Amazon - I would have always picked up a dedicated server based solution but earlier, they were only dedicated hardware based solutions = very expensive. Now what Amazon or DO have to offer are basically VM dedicated servers and I don't see clear link of VM development to Amazon (is there such?). This is IMHO not about the bussiness model.

Maybe I am wrong but for me it seems more related to development of VMs platforms and cloud computing (leaving aside slowly dropping prices of the storage media).


I have seen personally how the other suite of Amazon solutions, primarily Open Source, that are far away from delivering a simple VM solution

For example, look up AWS Elastic Search !

AWS is more than VMs

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby x9200 » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 1:40 pm

Sure, but how is it related to my earlier questions (how this can be that cheap including static IP)?

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 6:57 pm

x9200 wrote:zzm, this Digital Ocean, how it could be that cheap running on ssds? Is it a realistic price?
It looks like for each droplet what you get is a static IP, how this is possible? I mean, IPv4 is not that accomodating and normally you have to pay extra for a static IP.
Also, how long are you with them?


Costs to do what they're doing are plummeting, and they run a lean operation. They don't payt terribly weel, most people work remotely, and they have excellent word of mouth. They target the hobbyist/small businiess market which means they can massively oversell as most people rarely use more than 1% of what they pay for. I've been using them for about a year.

I wouldn't run a mission critical application exclusively on them in one location, but I wouldn't do that on EC2 either. Build your app to break, or be OK if you have a small outage. FWIW, I've never had a system reboot or crash with D.O. Maybe once or twice packet loss that was noticable, and 1-3 minutes of network outage spread over a year.

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 8:05 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:zzm, this Digital Ocean, how it could be that cheap running on ssds? Is it a realistic price?
It looks like for each droplet what you get is a static IP, how this is possible? I mean, IPv4 is not that accomodating and normally you have to pay extra for a static IP.
Also, how long are you with them?


Costs to do what they're doing are plummeting, and they run a lean operation. They don't payt terribly weel, most people work remotely, and they have excellent word of mouth. They target the hobbyist/small businiess market which means they can massively oversell as most people rarely use more than 1% of what they pay for. I've been using them for about a year.

I wouldn't run a mission critical application exclusively on them in one location, but I wouldn't do that on EC2 either. Build your app to break, or be OK if you have a small outage. FWIW, I've never had a system reboot or crash with D.O. Maybe once or twice packet loss that was noticable, and 1-3 minutes of network outage spread over a year.


I know a company hosting like 10 instances in each location, handling about 1 billion transactions a day, no complaints and for the past 2 years, zero outage

Amazon got something right !!!

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby Miss Swan » Sat, 20 Dec 2014 4:26 am

Reading all these replies has led me to conclude that handling Amazon servers is not a job for a non-tech staff member, correct me if I'm wrong. I would either have to look for an IT guy who's versed in this, or outsource the management to a managed services provider.

Or is it something I can learn by watching a few YouTube videos and reading up on Google?

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:26 am

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:zzm, this Digital Ocean, how it could be that cheap running on ssds? Is it a realistic price?
It looks like for each droplet what you get is a static IP, how this is possible? I mean, IPv4 is not that accomodating and normally you have to pay extra for a static IP.
Also, how long are you with them?


Costs to do what they're doing are plummeting, and they run a lean operation. They don't payt terribly weel, most people work remotely, and they have excellent word of mouth. They target the hobbyist/small businiess market which means they can massively oversell as most people rarely use more than 1% of what they pay for. I've been using them for about a year.

I wouldn't run a mission critical application exclusively on them in one location, but I wouldn't do that on EC2 either. Build your app to break, or be OK if you have a small outage. FWIW, I've never had a system reboot or crash with D.O. Maybe once or twice packet loss that was noticable, and 1-3 minutes of network outage spread over a year.


I know a company hosting like 10 instances in each location, handling about 1 billion transactions a day, no complaints and for the past 2 years, zero outage

Amazon got something right !!!


Is there zero outage because they build redundancy into their overall app arch and know how to appropriately handle breakage? (10 instances per location sure sounds like it) or are you saying that every single one of those 10 instances across has never had a single impact of any kind? Considering entire Amazon regions have gone offline in the past year (and it makes the news) I'm
Skeptical.

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:28 am

Miss Swan wrote:Reading all these replies has led me to conclude that handling Amazon servers is not a job for a non-tech staff member, correct me if I'm wrong. I would either have to look for an IT guy who's versed in this, or outsource the management to a managed services provider.

Or is it something I can learn by watching a few YouTube videos and reading up on Google?


It depends how involved you plan to be and what you plan to do. Anyone can boot an instance in ec2 by reading their own docs. Just like anyone can pick up a high powered sniper rifle and shoot it. But are you actually accomplishing anything productive by doing so? Devil is in the details.

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 22 Dec 2014 1:10 pm

zzm9980 wrote:Is there zero outage because they build redundancy into their overall app arch and know how to appropriately handle breakage? (10 instances per location sure sounds like it) or are you saying that every single one of those 10 instances across has never had a single impact of any kind? Considering entire Amazon regions have gone offline in the past year (and it makes the news) I'm
Skeptical.


well, Vmotion in action ?

To be honest, I did dig up a year's outage report on the apps, but there was ZERO outage indicated on availability !

No kidding !

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 23 Dec 2014 3:52 pm

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Is there zero outage because they build redundancy into their overall app arch and know how to appropriately handle breakage? (10 instances per location sure sounds like it) or are you saying that every single one of those 10 instances across has never had a single impact of any kind? Considering entire Amazon regions have gone offline in the past year (and it makes the news) I'm
Skeptical.


well, Vmotion in action ?

To be honest, I did dig up a year's outage report on the apps, but there was ZERO outage indicated on availability !

No kidding !


Amazon doesn't use VMware/ Vmotion. They use their own version of Xen.

Are you looking at the application level, or individual instances? Either way, if the latter you could still be just lucky. Individual hardware pods (and thus instances) fail in EC2.

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby x9200 » Thu, 29 Jan 2015 9:09 am

Zzm, do you have a mail server running on your Digital Ocean dropplet and if yes, did you notice any problems with mail delivery to the Yahoo servers? Yahoo claims there is/was too many connection attempts from my site what (as far as I can see) is not the case (and of course, it's not an open relay). I wonder whether they cut off the whole DO IP range or I am simply unlucky using a recycled IP address earlier used for spamming.

I am also impressed how much of unwanted interest these hosts attract. 60k attempts to break in via sshd only in last 3 days.

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 29 Jan 2015 9:44 am

x9200 wrote:Zzm, do you have a mail server running on your Digital Ocean dropplet and if yes, did you notice any problems with mail delivery to the Yahoo servers? Yahoo claims there is/was too many connection attempts from my site what (as far as I can see) is not the case (and of course, it's not an open relay). I wonder whether they cut off the whole DO IP range or I am simply unlucky using a recycled IP address earlier used for spamming.

I am also impressed how much of unwanted interest these hosts attract. 60k attempts to break in via sshd only in last 3 days.


No, I don't. I run my mail on an EC2 Micro instance. I also run my sshd on a very high port that isn't 22. :)

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Re: Amazon Server EC2

Postby x9200 » Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:02 am

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Zzm, do you have a mail server running on your Digital Ocean dropplet and if yes, did you notice any problems with mail delivery to the Yahoo servers? Yahoo claims there is/was too many connection attempts from my site what (as far as I can see) is not the case (and of course, it's not an open relay). I wonder whether they cut off the whole DO IP range or I am simply unlucky using a recycled IP address earlier used for spamming.

I am also impressed how much of unwanted interest these hosts attract. 60k attempts to break in via sshd only in last 3 days.


[..]I also run my sshd on a very high port that isn't 22. :)

So do I but I was courious and left 22 open. Similar level of devotion (obviousely different purpose) I can see for smpt but here postfix already does the job limiting the frequency.


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