At what point do you remain here, and sell your 'home', back

[Girl_Next_Door]

Churning a clients portfolio for fees/commissions. Sick-making...

As my husband will say... the fund managers in his office only know business class and first class. They don't know that there are people sitting behind business class (aka economy class). Of course, budget airlines is unheard of, in their bubble.

[Wd40]

I sometimes wonder if you need a private bank if you are already financially savvy, for example someone like JR8. The only reason I can think of is to get cheap loans with your assets as collateral. The interest rate on personal loans in Singapore is crazy, even though deposit rates are like 0.25% loans after the 2% processing fee is like 8%! Also personal loans are given only 4 times your monthly salary.

[PNGMK]

I sometimes wonder if you need a private bank if you are already financially savvy, for example someone like JR8. The only reason I can think of is to get cheap loans with your assets as collateral. The interest rate on personal loans in Singapore is crazy, even though deposit rates are like 0.25% loans after the 2% processing fee is like 8%! Also personal loans are given only 4 times your monthly salary.

Personal loans are just.... a really bad idea.

[Wd40]

Until like couple of years back I used to have banks calling me offering personal loans at 0% interest and just 2% processing fee. But times have changed now, banks are enticing us to deposit money with them at 1.25%. I am like wtf? 1.25%? I know better ways to make safe returns on my money by keeping it out of Singapore.

[Primrose Hill]

My husband and I had numerous discussions on this before. Currently, we own a place in London and the apartment we are living in Singapore. Both of us have no desire to retire in London or Singapore. However, we have (kinda) agreed that we will not sell the Singapore and London properties.

Both of us works in an environment that has numerous restrictions on personal trading, and we don't really have faith in fund managements (again, because of his job). In our opinion, properties is the easiest options for us to preserve and hopefully grow the funds in a very long term perspective. Our mortgage barely forms 10% of our combined income. Even if one of us decided to take a career break, and we are not able to rent out the property, we should be fine.

On the property, we would let the kids choose which country that they want to study (SG or UK) and having a property will facilitate us in visiting them. If they decided to work in either country, they may rent our apartment for a small rent. They should not have the expectations that they will "naturally" inherit the properties when they turn of age. The properties is largely for their convenience of education and for us to visit in the future. Given the obscene amount of rent and cost of living in these 2 cities, we just think that, if we sell either place, we will never be able to buy back the same property in 2024 and beyond. We don't need the cash immediately, so would prefer to just rent it out until the big education decision is made.

If the kids decided not to study in either country, the option to sell then, is still available.

Going back to you, it really depends on which stage you are at, currently. And what is your retirement plans are.

OMG we are like almost mirror image. Other than fund management. And kid as in singular.
We too own our own home in Singapore and London. London wise, are rented out. Will my daughter inherit it one day? Yes, of course. But it will be done; hopefully, like JR8 have alluded to, teaching and passing on whatever little knowledge we both have to her and encourage whatever tiny itsy bitsy cash she does have and how to grow it.

I too have no intention of retiring in SG or London. Where? I have no idea. Do we want to stay in the apartments whilst visiting daughter if she is studying in London? If the property is vacant, yes, possibly. We too have no intention of selling up in London or Singapore.

[Primrose Hill]

I sometimes wonder if you need a private bank if you are already financially savvy, for example someone like JR8. The only reason I can think of is to get cheap loans with your assets as collateral. The interest rate on personal loans in Singapore is crazy, even though deposit rates are like 0.25% loans after the 2% processing fee is like 8%! Also personal loans are given only 4 times your monthly salary.

Personal loans are just.... a really bad idea.

[JR8]

I have lived in and am hence acquainted with most of west London, from SW5 in the south, to W9 in the north.
‘Dodgy – Hugh Grant’, hehehe... As I recall in that film he lived in a rather nice place, Elgin Crescent IIRC. Though as one might expect, all was not quite as met the eye.
This was the site of the ‘Blue door’ - . It’s now black, as the blue one was very soon sold off at Christies no less. Unlike in the film, it doesn’t open to a house, but a courtyard, in which a detached mews like house is situated. That was owned by Richard Curtis, the films director, but he sold it during the fanfare of the films launch. For some inexplicable reason ‘Scully’ of the X-Files (Gillian Anderson) used to live just around the corner on Portobello, opposite Tesco. God only knows why, esp. as she had a young daughter. That area has always been very rough (drugs, crack-whores, the lot).

I keep coming back to the idea that ‘The rich man knows how much is enough’. It doesn’t matter how much it is, it is that it is enough to provide for what you need and wish. That is the riches referred to in this context, and not outright material wealth, and I see no virtue in wealth for wealth's sake. So if one reaches that point, why would one aspire to more? There is no purpose or plan for it, and neither would it fund things that in any case you do not wish or plan to do. Beyond your point of arrival, it is work, stress, a burden. I find it quite curious that even from my family I am getting shrieks of ‘No, don’t sell, never sell!’, and meanwhile it would be me with the burden who is never allowed to say ‘That’s it, I’ve achieved what I set out to achieve, now to set the sails for a different direction’. Ironic also that the nay-sayers have never been landlords... so what can they know of what it's really like?

It is not just London that has changed, but as expected I have too. Isn't this an expat conundrum? I probably wouldn’t naturally like who I was if I had to meet him now, but it was what was required at the time. Retirement/early retirement/the shift to self-employment involves a huge shift in ego and it is not a natural step. Suddenly all the easy badges via which you socially identified and defined yourself – ‘Yah, I’m a director at Morgan Lynch Sachs’ – are stripped away. You’re on your own And at that point people who still pull the ‘I’m this XYZ big-shot’ become incredibly tiresome, as it no longer matters, and it comes over as just desperate. I no longer want to live amongst people like that, and have to try and co-operatively run a share-of-freehold building with such people any more.

‘The Good Life’. OMG... my family used to watch that religiously back in the 70s. It was so of it’s time. That could be me eh, looking for a deeper meaning, versus the grabbing snobby banker neighbours hehehe.... . And like Richard Briars (?) and his comely wife I don’t care a jot what the neighbours think... But hold on; that was scripted in Surbiton (prime commuter belt), and I’m looking to get away to a regional/SE city. It wouldn’t be rural, it would be walking distance to the city centre, and an hour or less from London. I grew up in the country (by which I mean genuinely remote) and it was fantastic. That said I don’t underestimate the challenges that can come with it, isolation, access to shops, etc. Hence why say in a city, a miles walk to the centre will now feel relatively kampong in some ways but only in view of where I’ve lived since leaving home (Uni, London, then expatted).

Your point ‘The other thing that I find is that the "England" you left behind may not be the England of today’ is a good one. It changes, but we do too. I was back in the UK briefly about 2 years ago. My old neighbourhood feels so strange to me. I love the streets and architecture, but the people are new and alien. I used to enjoy ‘being local’ knowing neighbours, knowing local shopkeepers, feeling like it was *my* neighbourhood of which I was proud to be an active part. Now the place is subsumed in Range Rovers, Porsches and vulgar people, it feels like an alien place.

The new CGT coming in is seriously pernicious. As long as I kept that flat and rented it out, from Apr-15 the CGT liability will grow year on year by more than the *gross* annual rent. So, as a place we might keep for an occasional weekend ‘up in town’ it makes no sense at all. In fact occasionally staying at the Dorchester (no less) would be a veritable bargain by way of comparison.

And that is why the thinking is.... a home in a regional city near to London. A house, with no shitty power-crazed co-owners to deal with, a 15’*30’ patch of of a terrace/lawn. Then later, if it makes sense to get a bolt-hole in London then so be it. But then again and perhaps equally so, why not say Barcelona or somewhere warm.

[Wd40]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-1 ... flows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now you deposit money, oso you need to pay pay

[JR8]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-1 ... flows.html
Now you deposit money, oso you need to pay pay

Back in the 70s Swiss banking got a dirty name for an approach of 'take any money, few questions asked'. Indeed in my early days I'd still hear anecdotes of potential clients turning up with $millions of cash in a briefcase.

Times changed, and not to put too fine a point on it the US/EU almost shut-down the concept of Swiss Banking Secrecy, cash transactions, and so on.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to guess where this sudden tidal wave of new money is coming from. But the Swiss banks will take it at their peril.

[PNGMK]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-1 ... flows.html
Now you deposit money, oso you need to pay pay

Back in the 70s Swiss banking got a dirty name for an approach of 'take any money, few questions asked'. Indeed in my early days I'd still hear anecdotes of potential clients turning up with $millions of cash in a briefcase.

Times changed, and not to put too fine a point on it the US/EU almost shut-down the concept of Swiss Banking Secrecy, cash transactions, and so on.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to guess where this sudden tidal wave of new money is coming from. But the Swiss banks will take it at their peril.

Does anyone have an explanation for the incredibly long lines at money changers that I notice yesterday? The all time low of the Rinngit?

[JR8]

Does anyone have an explanation for the incredibly long lines at money changers that I notice yesterday? The all time low of the Rinngit?

Good question, as I have recently noticed long queues at money-changers in town, but hadn't thought why beyond 'Maybe it's re: Xmas'. However it seems the queues are more down to Mom+Pop speculators.

Looking at the charts the MYR is down something like 4.5% vs the S$ in December alone*. Ouch! I expect the bods down at SG-MAS who work on maintaining the S$ peg vs the currencies of major trading partners are putting in overtime right now.

Do a 'News' search on Google.com.sg on 'Singapore dollar malaysian ringgit' and it brings up many hits, most of which I'm not at liberty to quote due to copyright. However the following gives some pointers...

-----
'The Malaysian ringgit yesterday fell to its weakest level against the Singapore dollar in almost two decades, as government bonds fell on concern that a slump in oil prices will hurt government efforts to reduce the fiscal deficit'.
'The currency has declined 6.8% since October 10, the worst-performing currency in Asia, as the drop in crude threatens to crimp revenue in the petroleum-exporting nation.'
...'The slump in the ringgit had caught moneychangers in Singapore off-guard last week, and some ran short of the currency for several days. Today, moneychangers said they were still seeing long queues of people buying the Malaysian currency at their shops. However, they were not expecting a shortage in the coming days. Mohamad Rafik of Arcade Money Changers said: “Most people already bought as much ringgit as they can. I don’t think they will buy more.”'
... 'The drop in oil may pull down Malaysia’s current-account surplus, which was at RM7.6 billion last quarter, the least since June last year. A weaker exchange rate will also push up import prices just as Malaysia prepares to introduce a 6% goods and services tax in April.' [Etc., continues]
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/busi ... -2-decades" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-----

Funny how taxation/'cooling measures' get introduced, and by the time they come into force the market has corrected or even died it's own death, and the tax then becomes the 'stake through the heart'.

Good time to be planning a holiday in Malaysia though!


* I looked earlier, so that is very 'IIRC'.

[the lynx]

Yes. It is the MYR craze.

[Wd40]

Some them from my office also went and bought Ringgits day before yesterday. Its regular kopi time discussion now.

Can't believe, the amount of gambling instincts among average Chinese Singaporeans, some days the discussion is about Toto.

[PNGMK]

Yes. It is the MYR craze.

Why buy it now? It's going to sink even further surely given the series of disasters coming Malaysia's way? (Oil price, Gas price, Malaysia Air, Political craps etc).

[JR8]

Yes. It is the MYR craze.

Why buy it now? It's going to sink even further surely given the series of disasters coming Malaysia's way? (Oil price, Gas price, Malaysia Air, Political craps etc).

Same reason as for other popular crazes down the ages:
- The South Sea Bubble
- Tulipomania
- Pyramid 'investment schemes'
- Ostrich farming (UK)
- The Dot.com boom
- Off-plan brown-field land plots under the Heathrow flight path, or in JB/Iskandar etc.
- Trading 'currency pairs' (SG)
- etc etc.

The financially less-literate, and least well off, are sadly prone to grab at promises of easy riches.