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In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian neigh

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Wd40
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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby Wd40 » Wed, 26 Nov 2014 5:52 pm

Aragorn2000 wrote:
If overseas means other emerging markets, most are shit holes. I believe no body really wants to live there, unless they have no other choice.


Read this article and look at the bottom, see how many of them are emerging economies
http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/sp ... stinations

The other countries in the top 10 are China in third place, followed by Germany, Bahrain, New Zealand, Thailand, Taiwan, India and Hong Kong.


There was also another article that ZZM shared which showed that China happens to big the top favorite of Singaporean emigrants.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=103594
Surprised?

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby Wd40 » Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:04 pm

Another related article, but about Aussies and China happens to be one of the favs of Aussies too.

http://www.expatforum.com/banking/finan ... rners.html

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby Aragorn2000 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 8:47 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You haven't been here very long, have you. The expat population here is about half (western expats) of what it was back in the 80's & early 90's by percentage of the total population here now versus then. Singapore had it's first mass exodus of westerners in 1984 and an additional exodus in 1997. Unable to hack it, refers to whatever reason they couldn't make it there. Not anything to do with the draw of Singapore. That is why the majority who DO return, complain about Singapore after come back. I'm not talking about people on contracts but those who have taken up permanent residence in a Foreign Country.

Taking up permanent residence in a foreign country then moving back to Singapore is a drastic decision. I doubt it has anything to do with they being used to be coddled by Singapore gov.
In fact, people in western countries are much more coddled by their governments. At least there is no one living on the dole in Singapore. On equal economic conditions, getting a job or running a business in Singapore is not at all easier than in any other western countries.
I personally know a person in Australia. She owns a couple cheap apartments renting out to poor migrants, students (those people who cannot get a proper rent because of lacking reference). She only receives rent in cash to avoid tax. Her net worth is at least 2 millions. Yet she still lives on the dole!
I would call that exploiting the system instead of being able to think for oneself.

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 10:34 am

Aragorn2000 wrote:I would call that exploiting the system instead of being able to think for oneself.


Sounds like she is thinking quite clearly on how to exploit the system.

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby nakatago » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:17 am

Aragorn2000 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:You haven't been here very long, have you. The expat population here is about half (western expats) of what it was back in the 80's & early 90's by percentage of the total population here now versus then. Singapore had it's first mass exodus of westerners in 1984 and an additional exodus in 1997. Unable to hack it, refers to whatever reason they couldn't make it there. Not anything to do with the draw of Singapore. That is why the majority who DO return, complain about Singapore after come back. I'm not talking about people on contracts but those who have taken up permanent residence in a Foreign Country.

Taking up permanent residence in a foreign country then moving back to Singapore is a drastic decision. I doubt it has anything to do with they being used to be coddled by Singapore gov.
In fact, people in western countries are much more coddled by their governments. At least there is no one living on the dole in Singapore. On equal economic conditions, getting a job or running a business in Singapore is not at all easier than in any other western countries.
I personally know a person in Australia. She owns a couple cheap apartments renting out to poor migrants, students (those people who cannot get a proper rent because of lacking reference). She only receives rent in cash to avoid tax. Her net worth is at least 2 millions. Yet she still lives on the dole!
I would call that exploiting the system instead of being able to think for oneself.


Western and westernized countries have a stronger sense of social responsibility than Singapore, hence dole systems and such. Now, of course you got bludgers who exploit and abuse the system. I agree that that behavior should be discouraged, sanctioned or punished but I think that's a different issue altogether. A safety net is a must for any modern state but implementing ways of preventing abuses is NOT out of the question.

NB: I'm not a "bleeding-heart" liberal but I do lean left of center.

Back to topic, Singapore indeed does not coddle people like Western countries do but they do "coddle" businesses (and by extension people who run those businesses). The whole economy of Singapore is based upon aggressive investments by Temasek and implementing all sorts of incentives to encourage to do business on the island.

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby JR8 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 1:07 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Frankly, I think both are false reasons for returning. I believe most that do return because they just cannot hack it overseas. They are used to the gahment molly-coddling them but it a lot more difficult when you have to do the thinking yourself. They are intelligent and do well overseas, but I think it's too stressful for them to have to do all their own thinking outside of the workplace as well.


Generally agreed. But I think it is a parsed issue.

Those who attend 1st world universities abroad, either have an epiphany and 'see the light' of opportunity abroad and take it, or they do or don't see it and decide to return to the 'secure fishbowl' that is Singapore.

I've written previously of my first hand encounters with 'Contact Singapore' abroad. Which is, not to put too fine a point on it, a generously budgeted government department that operates abroad, tasked with persuading those expat SGns with the skills and cojones to leave [aka 'quit'], to return home.

The irony is that those with the wherewithal to 'quit', are precisely the kind of people the government need for the future plans of this country.

p.s. Finding other than the highly disparaging and condescending term 'quitter' to pin on them might be a good start, and such a tag points to the cultural basis of precisely why many 'talents' choose to make their lives elsewhere. I mean if you were educated, skilled, and global, why would you opt to return to somewhere where the government [no less] and society lable you thus? QED.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby nakatago » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 1:47 pm

JR8 wrote:p.s. Finding other than the highly disparaging and condescending term 'quitter' to pin on them might be a good start, and such a tag points to the cultural basis of precisely why many 'talents' choose to make their lives elsewhere. I mean if you were educated, skilled, and global, why would you opt to return to somewhere where the government [no less] and society lable you thus? QED.



From a country with people known to have no sense of irony or can't process sarcasm who advertised in other countries, telling potential visitors to "Get Lost!"

Not exactly the best way to handle societal issues by haphazardly applying culturally-loaded labels to global people.

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby JR8 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 2:10 pm

Well exactly. You have locals who leave and find new horizons and opportunities; you are never going to coax them back using a parochial local-mindset/guilt-trip approach. At least it won't work on the ones that you really would like to come back.

I know several [5+] SGns who have permanently settled abroad. Most have started out by going to uni or taking a posting... that has extended until life-events (marriage, children etc) come into the equation. At such a point they need an extremely compelling case to quit (lol) and return. I've yet to see it successfully made... and not to put to put too finer point on it most never look back.

It is interesting to listen to them, and hear what they think about the whole 'quitter'/Contact Singapore .... er, mechanism. It is certainly not positive at all.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby Aragorn2000 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 2:18 pm

JR8 wrote:At such a point they need an extremely compelling case to quit (lol) and return.


I'm confused. I assume you meant "quitters" means quitting Singapore, but the above sentence means the other way round :)

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 4:35 pm

and this is extremely good marketing for Malaysia !!

http://www.tinyurl.com/jwzp9dz

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby maneo » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 5:08 pm

Wd40 wrote:There was also another article that ZZM shared which showed that China happens to big the top favorite of Singaporean emigrants.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=103594
Surprised?

No, it's not surprising.
There's a feeling of greater opportunity and freedom.
I know of about 2 dozen that have been working in China at least 7-10 years and counting.

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby JR8 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 8:46 pm

Aragorn2000 wrote:
JR8 wrote:At such a point they need an extremely compelling case to quit (lol) and return.


I'm confused. I assume you meant "quitters" means quitting Singapore, but the above sentence means the other way round :)


It was meant in an ironic way, and it is ironic! I.e. they lable those who leave as 'quitters', which I find a dreadful and condescending term, but then have wondering roadshows around the world to which they invite offshore Singaporeans (and family members, but no guests allowed) seeking to get them to 'quit' their new homelands, and return back to SG.

Maybe Brah has been invited to one. Bryant Park or the Wollman Rink are his local venues of choice for Contact Singapore.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 5:11 am

maneo wrote:
Wd40 wrote:There was also another article that ZZM shared which showed that China happens to big the top favorite of Singaporean emigrants.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=103594
Surprised?

No, it's not surprising.
There's a feeling of greater opportunity and freedom.
I know of about 2 dozen that have been working in China at least 7-10 years and counting.


Freedom is a draw indeed. I know a foreigner who had the opportunity to work in KL or Singapore, and she chose KL for less money. Why? Because "In KL I am freer, I don't have the government punishing me for smoking or drinking or trying to nanny me". How true that is, I'm unsure (especially if Shariah takes hold more), but it is a perception.

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 8:02 am

zzm9980 wrote:Freedom is a draw indeed. I know a foreigner who had the opportunity to work in KL or Singapore, and she chose KL for less money. Why? Because "In KL I am freer, I don't have the government punishing me for smoking or drinking or trying to nanny me". How true that is, I'm unsure (especially if Shariah takes hold more), but it is a perception.


If the person said that KL is better due to a different lifestyle, like ease of owning a car, better house/condo etc, I would say ok !!

BTW, is this Malaysia's future ??

Non-Malays should never again dispute the special rights of the Malays and the position of the rulers, Khairy Jamaluddin said today, adding that Malays themselves never questioned vernacular schools and the citizenship of non-Malays. The Umno youth chief said in his policy speech at the party's general assembly that the Malays had "accepted and they had never questioned" the social contract they agreed upon during the formation of Malaysia. - See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/mala ... ed8x1.dpuf

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Re: In global talent survey, Malaysia races ahead of Asian n

Postby nakatago » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 8:08 am

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Freedom is a draw indeed. I know a foreigner who had the opportunity to work in KL or Singapore, and she chose KL for less money. Why? Because "In KL I am freer, I don't have the government punishing me for smoking or drinking or trying to nanny me". How true that is, I'm unsure (especially if Shariah takes hold more), but it is a perception.


If the person said that KL is better due to a different lifestyle, like ease of owning a car, better house/condo etc, I would say ok !!

BTW, is this Malaysia's future ??

Non-Malays should never again dispute the special rights of the Malays and the position of the rulers, Khairy Jamaluddin said today, adding that Malays themselves never questioned vernacular schools and the citizenship of non-Malays. The Umno youth chief said in his policy speech at the party's general assembly that the Malays had "accepted and they had never questioned" the social contract they agreed upon during the formation of Malaysia. - See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/mala ... ed8x1.dpuf


I've always seen Singapore's racism as a response to Malaysia's racism.


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