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[need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me out

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby x9200 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:42 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote:
EP landlord? I don't believe that's legal. One has to be PR or citizen and even with PR, there are a lot of caveats.


So I don't get this bit from you and SMS. If it is a private property (say condo), a foreigner can own it. Why can't they rent it (or a room) out? Is that explicitly prohibited?

Note that OP never said this was HDB. Later posts make me believe you're right for this case because of shadiness, but your statement here implies that all foreigners just cannot sublet a unit even if they own it.


Yep, it's perfectly legal to own and rent out a condo unit even without any longer term residential status in Singapore.

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby bro75 » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 1:26 pm

The person the OP calls the landlord is not the owner of the property.

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby nakatago » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 1:44 pm

In summary:

* OP lost job, "landlord" found out, kicking him out
* OP asks us for advice, mentioned "landlord" is EP holder
* I commented that an EP holder renting out may be illegal
* lots of tangential discussion took place but OP has revealed additional information:
* OP was staying in a condo
* "landlord" is behind bills; OP believes "landlord" owes money himself
* one confirmation short that "landlord" doesn't own the place

Implications:
* OP's "landlord" is most probably doing something illegal (we're not sure what exactly yet)
* OP will never recover his deposit money
* ZZM will ask the gahmen about EP holder being a landlord

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby iloverice » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 2:01 pm

OP also mentioned that the unit has been partitioned by the LL. Maybe ZZM can help to ask gahmen on the illegal partition as well? :D
kclarins wrote:
bro75 wrote:Is the person you refer to as the "landlord", the owner of the unit you are staying at?


Well, we get the idea he isn't the owner. He tells us that we always have to keep our doors locked because the owner wants to come over to check the place. We have no qualms with that -- we even mentioned that just set a time and we can have a chat with the owner. Never happened.

There were only supposed to be four rooms (1 master, 2 other bedrooms, 1 storage) but he built a partition to have another room. When we complained, he said that we are only renting the rooms.

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 27 Nov 2014 3:31 pm

iloverice wrote:OP also mentioned that the unit has been partitioned by the LL. Maybe ZZM can help to ask gahmen on the illegal partition as well? :D
kclarins wrote:
bro75 wrote:Is the person you refer to as the "landlord", the owner of the unit you are staying at?


Well, we get the idea he isn't the owner. He tells us that we always have to keep our doors locked because the owner wants to come over to check the place. We have no qualms with that -- we even mentioned that just set a time and we can have a chat with the owner. Never happened.

There were only supposed to be four rooms (1 master, 2 other bedrooms, 1 storage) but he built a partition to have another room. When we complained, he said that we are only renting the rooms.


There's more of them short-hairs! :cool:

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 5:14 am

x9200 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote:
EP landlord? I don't believe that's legal. One has to be PR or citizen and even with PR, there are a lot of caveats.


So I don't get this bit from you and SMS. If it is a private property (say condo), a foreigner can own it. Why can't they rent it (or a room) out? Is that explicitly prohibited?

Note that OP never said this was HDB. Later posts make me believe you're right for this case because of shadiness, but your statement here implies that all foreigners just cannot sublet a unit even if they own it.


Yep, it's perfectly legal to own and rent out a condo unit even without any longer term residential status in Singapore.


Right with no legal residency status and that was my understanding as well, but the implication from SMS (who is pretty tuned in) is that MOM may not like the additional income if you're here on an EP. It seems counterintuitive, but I can see the point MOM may raise.

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby JR8 » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 9:38 am

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Yep, it's perfectly legal to own and rent out a condo unit even without any longer term residential status in Singapore.


Right with no legal residency status and that was my understanding as well, but the implication from SMS (who is pretty tuned in) is that MOM may not like the additional income if you're here on an EP. It seems counterintuitive, but I can see the point MOM may raise.


Consider the amount of SGn property that is sold to foreigners with no status here. If such people later get a job here, do they then either have to occupy their own investment, or sell up? Hmmm.
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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:05 am

Case in point. If you are a citizen and want to buy an HDB from the government, you cannot already own a private property at the same time. Only after you have owned the HDB and lived in it as a residence for at least 5 (I think - although I've heard 10) years can you buy a private property, but there is still some codicil about living in the HDB vrs living in the private property (which they see as an investment and not the primary residence). So, yeah, while it counterintuitive, it is definitely a possiblity on the little red dot.

edited to add the link to clarify from HDB:

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10325p.nsf ... enDocument

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby x9200 » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:24 am

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:So I don't get this bit from you and SMS. If it is a private property (say condo), a foreigner can own it. Why can't they rent it (or a room) out? Is that explicitly prohibited?

Note that OP never said this was HDB. Later posts make me believe you're right for this case because of shadiness, but your statement here implies that all foreigners just cannot sublet a unit even if they own it.


Yep, it's perfectly legal to own and rent out a condo unit even without any longer term residential status in Singapore.


Right with no legal residency status and that was my understanding as well, but the implication from SMS (who is pretty tuned in) is that MOM may not like the additional income if you're here on an EP. It seems counterintuitive, but I can see the point MOM may raise.

MOM could be IMHO only concerned if this was de facto an income targeted lease (so like what JR8 is doing back in the UK). If this is to pay the loan only I don't think MOM will be after such LL.
Besides, if the case of an income lease, MOM, IMHO should be concerned regardless the LL is on EP or not. Or shouldn't be really? MOM's perspective should be based on the job market protection.

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby taxico » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 9:25 pm

kclarins wrote:How would you define "informal"? My situation involves a signed contract, despite not having a stamp.

I have paid my rent and bills on time to the landlord. However, I see that there are always late charges on the bills, and it seems the landlord is not paying on time despite my and my flatmates being on time. Looks like landlord will pass on the late charges to us, and we will not stand for that.

With the bills not being paid on time, landlord looks like he has no money, and I have no assurance that I will get my deposit back unless I have it spent as my last month's rent.

Thanks for the feedback so far. I honestly do not want to twist anyone's arm, but I want to protect myself.


define informal? say, a spit handshake? or, trust? you do not know of friends/couples/colleagues who share an apartment with only 1 TA, 1 landlord and 1 tenant in existence...?

not stamping a document doesn't mean everything goes your way. eg, if the document doesn't exist, that means your proof of having paid a deposit goes out the window too. that doesn't sound right, does it? nor does it mean the mediator/registrar/jc/judge will accept that it's the landlord's fault that you lost your job and are no longer entitled to rent a place/reside in singapore... (and therefore you're having to terminate your contract earlier than expected because it's all the LL's fault. him him him.)

that the bills are paid late is nothing to do with you unless you're being made an involved party by the creditors - you are not the one legally responsible for the bill or its late charges. but should the landlord stick the late charges on you/other tenants without cause/reason certainly isn't right - the way you word it seemed it has not happened yet and the bill is not withheld by your landlord. let's cross that bridge when you get there. suffice to say, as long as the utilities are still provided, you need not kick a fuss.

it's really as simple as PNG said - if you have the right to terminate your TA early without penalty, you can do so.

1. you entered the contract with eyes wide opened. 2. your LL did not cause you to lose your job.

not stamping the document, blaming the LL for not having money for bills (and thus, maybe, no money to return your deposit, a deposit that he should be entitled to because you are breaking contract), and finding everything criminal the LL may conceivably have done to use as fodder to get your deposit back, is, in my opinion, twisting his arm.
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby taxico » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 9:32 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
iloverice wrote:OP also mentioned that the unit has been partitioned by the LL. Maybe ZZM can help to ask gahmen on the illegal partition as well? :D
kclarins wrote:Well, we get the idea he isn't the owner. He tells us that we always have to keep our doors locked because the owner wants to come over to check the place. We have no qualms with that -- we even mentioned that just set a time and we can have a chat with the owner. Never happened.

There were only supposed to be four rooms (1 master, 2 other bedrooms, 1 storage) but he built a partition to have another room. When we complained, he said that we are only renting the rooms.


There's more of them short-hairs! :cool:


not illegal to partition out a room in private property... as long as permission has been sought and granted by URA, and that the total rental occupancy does not exceed 8 (regardless of residential property size).

i think there may be a minimum area/occupant, but i don't remember what it is. might be 100 sq ft/person...
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Re: [need advice] I lost my job & my landlord is kicking me

Postby kclarins » Mon, 01 Dec 2014 9:50 pm

Hi, everyone. Thank you for your advice so far. I have gone to easy room mate, gumtree, and craigslist to advertise to anyone who may be interested to take over my lease.

Since I am paying for my ads in easy room mate, I also advertised my landlord's master's bedroom vacancy and I have been giving him leads -- he has two so far, and they look promising.

I was asked by my landlord to pay earlier, and I have again asked him to reconsider using my deposit as my final month's rent. I pointed out that I have been a very good tenant and I am helping him with looking for a replacement for my lease as well as his master's bedroom.

LL checked my room yesterday and saw that it was spotless -- I offered to give around $200 (this was my only money left remaining in the world) to consider as deposit for any damages.

I didn't get a reply, but I kept sending updates of leads to him and a viewing for both our rooms tonight. He would just reply "okay" and "thanks" to the room leads.

I just hope he finds the effort useful, and will lay off me a bit. Praying that I find people to take over both rooms.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Just hope it ends well for all of us.


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