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Rents fall further

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ecureilx
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Re: RE: Re: Rents fall further

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 8:59 am

calugaruvaxile wrote: nowadays, all sg looks like central hk as it's seen from the peak.


Still 40% or so of Singapore land is forest cover ... just saying ..

And Singapore has "grown" by nearly 12% since independence due to reclamation ...

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby JR8 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 9:45 am

Primrose Hill wrote:with the election coming, do you think that the govt may react favourably given that the TDSR and the ABSD is having a negative effect on the housing prices?


Given that major economies are projecting a gradual move towards growth starting to kick in in within the year, with parallel rises in interest rates, this would seem to be precisely the wrong time for TDSR to be relaxed. I.e. the cost of servicing debt is likely already on a gradual long-term upward path.

ABSD. Trickier to consider. But governments don't often introduce taxes only to then reduce them shortly thereafter, as that leaves an impression that maybe they didn't get it quite right in the first place. ABSD was brought in (ostensibly) as an anti-speculation measure. Unless economic conditions locally mean that ABSD means 'normal home-owners' are suddenly finding their lives restricted it's not easy to imagine the grounds for it to be reduced. More-so if at the time of it's introduction it was not specifically billed as a dynamic levy.

But come election time, as elsewhere in the world, all bets are off. Populist sweeteners are pretty much par for the course. Looking back at the %scale of the drop in property prices during the last rout here, that the government 'allowed the people to endure', and how they responded to it (if at all, I forget), might be the best available forward indicator of how they will act if similar circumstances recur.
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Re: Rents fall further

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 10:25 am

calugaruvaxile wrote:
Primrose Hill wrote:with the election coming, do you think that the govt may react favourably given that the TDSR and the ABSD is having a negative effect on the housing prices?


the rents won't go up either way. simply there is not enough demand. the businesses consider Sg already too expensive. push prices up now = kill the golden goose ...

asking prices go up? great but ... who's gonna pay for that? the interest rates are climbing (no more free money!) and with rents not moving up, the high prices are simply too much. oh, that's part of the reason why transactions are stalled even nowadays. yes, the official statement is that "people expect further drops", but truth is, sg incomes are already low compared to the costs of living (which are really high!!).

quite honestly, i have no idea how to get out of this squeezy situation softly; but on the other hand, maybe they deserve it for their aggressive milking during the "good days". i call this "indirect tax on doing business in sg":).


Valid points ....

With so many GLC's in the "property game" it should relatively easy to control by the Govt , but iy would appear that its easier said than done.
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Re: Rents fall further

Postby x9200 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 10:34 am

the lynx wrote:Still going down. Been having intense discussions with friends who are renewing this year. Renter's market. The decline of expats is forcing landlords to face either empty units with mortgage piling up, or reduce rent and keep current tenants. So if you like your current place, try to seek reduction. Because chances are that you will always be able to find cheaper and batter places, or your landlord will be looking at empty unit or high-risk tenant.

That's what I am trying to do but my LL, despite of being really a reasonable person, for some reason* thinks his apartment is special, worth higher price and apparently resistant to the market changes (at least those not in his favor). I already told him that unless he is very lucky there is now way he will manage to find a new tenant for the price valid 2y ago in any reasonable time. For ~25 units available in that condo, ~20 is offered 10% or more below the price and only 2-3 units at higher, all negotiable of course. I even offered him help to get rid of his agent so actually he would de facto maintain (roughly) the price but so far it looks he may need to learn the lesson hard way. Unfortunately also at our cost and huge inconvenience.

*) most likely an idea planted in his head by his REA who is, as far as I could see, of the worst local type.

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby bgd » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 10:46 am

I had a LL like that. His place was empty 8 months before he tried to sell it. Still for sale I think. Hard lesson learned.

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby Wd40 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 10:51 am

There is a joke about why Chinese and Indians cannot do business together. Chinese want to extract every penny possible out of you where as Indians don't want to spend a single penny.

I think this is exactly what is at play here :)

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby x9200 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:07 am

Except he is an Indian and I am asking only for a fair adjustment, not to get it as low as possible. I can rent a same size unit in this condo $500 below what I pay now and I only ask half of this. Funny enough I had the impression that he actually expected a rise.

It is an interesting phenomena how a person otherwise very reasonable suddenly gets resistant to any common sense based argument.

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:27 am

On a business angle , we had to leave our previous place when negotiations with JTC didnt work out.

So we left , and the establishment we left has been empty for pver 2 years since.

Whilst one office unit will not impact JTC in the slightest , a few "landlords" in the housing sector are going to have to learn the hard way it seems, in that you cant keep on screwing folk , once all the juice is gone you have to release your grip!!!
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Re: Rents fall further

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:29 am

x9200 wrote:Except he is an Indian and I am asking only for a fair adjustment, not to get it as low as possible. I can rent a same size unit in this condo $500 below what I pay now and I only ask half of this. Funny enough I had the impression that he actually expected a rise.

It is an interesting phenomena how a person otherwise very reasonable suddenly gets resistant to any common sense based argument.


I dont think the Agents help .... surely they too are in the same boat though , some rental agreement is better than no agreement. I really dont get the logic?

There are not thousands of folk coming here anymore with bottomless pits of cash who are prepared to pay way over the odds for a place.

Coupled with the massive supply of new places coming on line now and in the next two or three years , reality is gonna be a very big kick in the balls for a lot of people.
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Re: Rents fall further

Postby x9200 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:35 am

Big players like the said JTC or Far East are completely not flexible in any terms. I have some experience with the later one and clearly the prefer to have their property stayed empty rather than to have, for example, any (any) contract adjustment.

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby Wd40 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:39 am

I know its a tricky situation to deal with this kind of landlord. What about your deposit? This landlord could make it difficult for you to get back your deposit. But knowing you and your legal expertise, I know you will make it equally hard for him as well. :)

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby x9200 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:44 am

Barnsley wrote:I dont think the Agents help .... surely they too are in the same boat though , some rental agreement is better than no agreement. I really dont get the logic?

Not sure. I recon if a REA is big enough (many flats under) he may want to wait a month or three to get this additional $300. But in any longer time, yes, it would appear better to have more frequent contracts signed rather than wait with nothing in hand.

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby x9200 » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:02 pm

Wd40 wrote:I know its a tricky situation to deal with this kind of landlord. What about your deposit? This landlord could make it difficult for you to get back your deposit. But knowing you and your legal expertise, I know you will make it equally hard for him as well. :)

I don't expect him to cause any trouble by himself. He is an easy going person and he is not greedy. This is not a kiasu-like thing neither. I think his financial situation might have changed some time after he rented it out to us and he made some wrong assumptions (probably) partly for the reason we met together also socially.
I would sooner expect troubles from his agent. Either way, I believe I should manage.

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby the lynx » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 8:08 pm

Wd40 wrote:There is a joke about why Chinese and Indians cannot do business together. Chinese want to extract every penny possible out of you where as Indians don't want to spend a single penny.

I think this is exactly what is at play here :)


Yup, Russel Peters :P

[youtube]http://youtu.be/ZtbyVFLl_7U[/youtube]

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Re: Rents fall further

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 23 Jun 2015 8:34 pm

I hate that Prick Russel Peters, the most unfunniest person on the planet

/rant.
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