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Brah
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This week's rant

Postby Brah » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 8:31 am

This time from the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatn ... reans.html

Resentment towards expats in Singapore is at an all-time high, according to young Singaporeans

As always, the comments...
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Re: This week's rant

Postby NotNewbie » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 8:44 am

The anti-foreigner internet tirade is already hurting Singapore. I think sometimes situations have to turn bad before it turns better. The country may have to suffer a bit to understand the consequences of their own actions.

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Re: This week's rant

Postby Brah » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 8:50 am

Zac Thomas, a British mobile app entrepreneur, has lived in Singapore for a year.

He said: “Running a business is about putting the best man in the job, not fulfilling some quotas. Singapore is a great place to do business, but the people here don’t have the same level of experience in multinationals as some of the expats do.
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Re: This week's rant

Postby Steve1960 » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 9:26 am

“Friends who work in banking say there is a big difference between how we work and how the expats work. When they finish their work, they are done for the day. The Singaporeans will work and work until nine or 10 at night, but it is not them that get the promotion, it is the expat.”

The difference between working harder and working smarter :wink:

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Re: This week's rant

Postby Primrose Hill » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 9:29 am

Brah wrote:Zac Thomas, a British mobile app entrepreneur, has lived in Singapore for a year.

He said: “Running a business is about putting the best man in the job, not fulfilling some quotas. Singapore is a great place to do business, but the people here don’t have the same level of experience in multinationals as some of the expats do.

Agree. It isnt about the level of education. The languages ability is obviously as plus, but the job experience is sadly lacking, especially in the financial services industry.

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Re: This week's rant

Postby nakatago » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 9:48 am

Steve1960 wrote:“Friends who work in banking say there is a big difference between how we work and how the expats work. When they finish their work, they are done for the day. The Singaporeans will work and work until nine or 10 at night, but it is not them that get the promotion, it is the expat.”

The difference between working harder and working smarter :wink:


They'll probably complain of racism or patronage system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage#Politics

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the lynx
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Re: This week's rant

Postby the lynx » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:01 am

And then they complain on how national service is hindering their head start into career.

South Korea, Israel and other countries also have compulsory military conscription, even for females (for some countries like Israel) and look, they even "take over the locals' jobs here" and also in other countries where national service is even unheard of.

Edit: If this is the head start they are talking about, I don't know what else dear God can help them.
Last edited by the lynx on Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: This week's rant

Postby JR8 » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:18 am

They're like a headless chicken trying to find the elephant in the room.

The comments were interesting, not least how they begin chronologically with thought out and well articulated opinions, and end with a couple of Singaporeans who seem unable to put cogent points together, so inadequate is their english.

Perhaps a case of self-resolving QED.
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Re: This week's rant

Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:51 am

I think NS gives them an advantage. It turns boys to men :mrgreen: .

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Re: This week's rant

Postby Barnsley » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:26 am

I am still baffled by folk still believing "late finishes" equates to quality work.

My boss is on my case if I work long days often, he wants to know why I am doing so. Its not seen as a badge of honour working 12hr days all the time.
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Re: This week's rant

Postby nakatago » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:32 am

Barnsley wrote:I am still baffled by folk still believing "late finishes" equates to quality work.

My boss is on my case if I work long days often, he wants to know why I am doing so. Its not seen as a badge of honour working 12hr days all the time.



I had the opposite: a manager was actually expecting me to spend long days (and nights) if I want to accomplish something. No deadlines, no pressure...just general advice on how to achieve general goals at work. :o :shock:

I'd also like to point out said manager wasn't very popular with his management style such that his manager met our team to ask if we--a team that was then currently working on unrelated projects--were experiencing problems...which we were but it wasn't skills, technical or scheduling related.

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Re: This week's rant

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:44 am

correct me if I am wrong, I feel a lot of expats are penning 'reports' and 'commentaries' that FCF is detrimental to Singapore's growth.

Is that what it's all about ?

Maybe Singapore should go the way of some Asian countries where every expat applying for a pass gets his name and details splashed on newspapers, and if any natives complain, said Expat gets just one chance to appeal and then it's over !!

BTW, the comments on that site are enlightening !!! And enough truth in some of the posts !

nakatago wrote:I had the opposite: a manager was actually expecting me to spend long days (and nights) if I want to accomplish something. No deadlines, no pressure...just general advice on how to achieve general goals at work. :o :shock:

I'd also like to point out said manager wasn't very popular with his management style such that his manager met our team to ask if we--a team that was then currently working on unrelated projects--were experiencing problems...which we were but it wasn't skills, technical or scheduling related.


I once worked for an expat manager, who had a habit of logging into systems on Weekends and then come Monday will have a scolding session with his wards, (I wasn't in his firing list) for not looking into the systems on Weekends

That's despite the fact that the problems he discovers on weekends don't result in any outages, and we had a 24X7 monitoring team that didn't escalate but that didn't stop the guy spending his weekends looking for trouble !

That expats work shorter and smarter hours, and local work longer inefficient hours is not always true !!!

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Re: This week's rant

Postby JR8 » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:54 am

Barnsley wrote:I am still baffled by folk still believing "late finishes" equates to quality work.
My boss is on my case if I work long days often, he wants to know why I am doing so. Its not seen as a badge of honour working 12hr days all the time.


You see similar in Japan, where to some extent just being in the office is as important as productivity. They even have a term for the ultimate extreme version; 'kuroshi', which translates literally as 'death through overwork'.

I recall asking my team here why they lingered in the office after work. Apart from an unspoken insecurity to leave early (never mind on time), some vague suggestions were:
- 'parents not home yet
- 'Air con here in office, but not at home
- 'Want to avoid rush hour.

Back home in London I experienced what you describe. Employees willing to sit at their desks 18hrs a day even if they had little to do, but just to show willing. This was much more apparent when a rout and job cuts were looming (seemingly every other year). There was something of an informal policy of managers going around and literally ordering their lingering staff to go home.
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Re: This week's rant

Postby brian_singapore » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 1:44 pm

I wonder when it will occur to the folks in the article (who seemed mostly young and entry level) that a much larger problem is the level of outsourcing in mncs means there simply are no entry level and intermediate positions available.

In my area, we don't have any positions below the manager / 10 years of experience mark and then very few at that level. Every thing else has been outsourced. There are no entry points available in my organization and no path that gets you from entry level into management.

Where I work the foreigners aren't taking their (entry and mid-level) jobs because their are none to take. Those are all in India, China and Malaysia.

This means Singapore will be in a vicious circle of always needing to bring in senior level talent because the means to develop this locally won't exist...

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Re: This week's rant

Postby Barnsley » Wed, 12 Nov 2014 1:58 pm

I wonder when it will occur to the folks in the article (who seemed mostly young and entry level) that a much larger problem is the level of outsourcing in mncs means there simply are no entry level and intermediate positions available.

In my area, we don't have any positions below the manager / 10 years of experience mark and then very few at that level. Every thing else has been outsourced. There are no entry points available in my organization and no path that gets you from entry level into management.

Where I work the foreigners aren't taking their (entry and mid-level) jobs because their are none to take. Those are all in India, China and Malaysia.

This means Singapore will be in a vicious circle of always needing to bring in senior level talent because the means to develop this locally won't exist...


I dont think its occured to many folk .........
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